Tony Blair warns Labour to avoid identity politics

[womaninblue]

I canvassed for Labour during the run-up to the election and I lost count of the number of former Labour voters who told me they'd consider returning when someone like Tony Blair, someone they deemed 'sensible' and not dogmatically ideological, was running the party. Blair does seem to understand people in a way that Corbyn and Momentum don't.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/20/tony-blair-only-a-complete-renewal-of-labour-will-do

I'd like to see him address his part in this.

There are many things I would like to see him do. Most of them are unprintable.

Tony Blair has far too much common sense and awareness to believe that TWAW.

I don't think it's an issue of whether anyone believes TWAW or not, I don't think many mps do.

It's just different ways to stop the conversation around the clash of women's rights and trans rights.

The current Tory party and Blair think it's better to pretend that nothing is happening - don't wave trans flags, but dont step in to protect women's rights either.

The current labour party want to wave trans flags and actively stop anyone talking about women's rights.

Either way, women and girls are losing our rights.

Share token for the Times

Don’t allow Labour become trans ‘pressure group’, pleads Tony Blair
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e0d5399c-53d4-11ea-a869-24971f770bf3?shareToken=a8d67bc99915a6c362664ea41aec9230

And as if it wasn't confusing / depressing enough to have men like Blair and Portillow speaking up, you can now add to the list Derek Hutton!

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/derek-hatton-backing-trans-rights-17776691

It’s sad though that it’s only male voices are being listened to in this time but if that’s what it takes...
Unfortunately that’s not true. People are listening to the voices of Long-Bailey, Nandy, and Thornberry.
On this issue we cannot claim that women are making any better sense: just at the weekend a woman said that male rapists should be locked up with women, while another said that babies are born without sex.

Derek Hatton from above,
"But oh no! We are talking about people with stressful lives of holding down or looking for a job, very often with pathetic low pay and/or a zero- hours contract; or who are at their wits’ end waiting for a bed for a sick loved one in a totally under-funded hospital.

Do we really honestly believe that those people have at the top of their daily priority list the issues of trans rights, social media, the monarchy, broadband or discussion about who was the greatest Labour leader?

At the same time, Dawn Butler, someone I’ve always had some time for, comes out with the comment, “a child is born without a sex”.

Is she really seriously suggesting that a child is born without a ‘biological sex? Yes, of course, I support “trans rights” and yes, more understanding is needed, but a comment like this after being trounced at the general election reminds me of Rodney speaking to Del Boy as he comes out of the maternity suite.

“What is it?” asks Rodney, and Del Boy replies, “It’s a baby”. (continues)

Now, the proposed leaders are choosing to talk about trans rights, social media etc rather than jobs, zero-hour contracts, powers of the trades unions, the NHS etc.

“For the many not the few”?

We seem more concerned about the interests of the very few, the point zero, zero, zero of one per cent who may have an issue over being male or female. Del Boy and Rodney were supposed to be characters of comedy; the leadership of the Labour party is supposed to be very serious."

Im unsure if Hatton recognises the threats to women's sex based rights & Safeguarding which women in the party have been attempting to raise for some time or thinks simply that this shouldnt be spoken about?

It would be good though if he & his comrades in Liverpool watch a woman from Resisters attempt to raise some of the Safeguarding issues to Liverpool council & consider Mayor Anderson's reaction.

19th September 2018

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3364329-Motion-against-Liverpool-ReSisters-by-Liverpool-City-Council

Cwenthryth ("Iraq is the deal breaker I expect (& I was 100% Not In My Name) but aside from that, why do current Labour members dislike TB so much? ")

I think Iraq is the deal breaker, as you say. It's difficult for many people to say "aside from" with something that was so big.

As a lefty I disagreed with Blair on a good many things (PFI and tuition fees, aspects of anti-terror legislation) but Iraq is really the one thing that I can't forgive and forget.

Of course here he is absolutely right: the leadership contenders shouldn't have signed that pledge.

But as Violetparis said, it's not all about Momentum. Lisa Nandy definitely isn't a Momentum member - she ran Owen Smith's campaign against Corbyn. There are centrists, Lib Dems and SNP members who are extremely pro-TRA. And there are people like that former Corbyn aide who wrote last week in strong opposition to the LCfTR pledge and against the position taken by Nandy and RLB. And again, there's Mark Serwotka, who is very leftwing, was thrown out of the Labour Party until he rejoined under Corbyn, who is very much against this TR pledge. Serwotka's piece was published in the Morning Star, not an organ of centrism. And Laura Parker, former national coordinator of Momentum, I don't know her position on TR, but she's endorsed Starmer for the leadership, the sole candidate who has withheld his signature.

So it's a bit of a red herring to equate TR with Corbynism or anti-TR with centrism, regardless what your views on Corbynism or centrism in other respects are.

Unfortunately that’s not true. People are listening to the voices of Long-Bailey, Nandy, and Thornberry.

The only reason that they are listening is because these women are speaking for things which benefit males.

The current Tory party and Blair think it's better to pretend that nothing is happening - don't wave trans flags, but dont step in to protect women's rights either

I take a more over-arching perspective, myself......I think that the TRA agenda is a signifier of our times - in fact, the apotheosis of Identity Politics. When caught up in history sometimes you have to ride it out - because events and ideas have a momentum of their own.

As you suggest, nobody really believes that TWAW - but those who are most associated - by political affiliation - with these sorts of movements will find it almost impossible to stand up and speak out: only those with little to lose, or who are confident their career won't be affected will speak out.

I sense that Tony Blair understands this...as most people with a political brain do......However, he is in a position to attempt to lead people away from this 'political cul-de-sac' with his words. I don't think it is utterly cynical - as some seem to - I think he knows it is a dead end, and one, which in the fullness of time, will recede in its power and urgency as the debate becomes more public and mainstream.

He's basically telling the Labour party not to sacrifice itself on the alter of woke identity politics. That's how I see it anyway.

There we have a clear illustration of what’s going on with failing Labour. Right now it’s so bad it’s almost as if the candidates are the Tory payroll. Like some sort of ludicrous political espionage.

And as if it wasn't confusing / depressing enough to have men like Blair and Portillo speaking up, you can now add to the list Derek Hatton

As for Derek Hatton, I live in Liverpool, and I hold the man in no esteem at all. He's a pure chancer and opportunist - but to give him his due he does speak, in certain ways, for the 'common man' - and they all know that sex is real. People ar getting themselves into some seriously contorted states in order to prop and justify up the TRA agenda, and their own 'training'.

Tony Blair has far too much common sense and awareness to believe that TWAW. I think you can at least give him that

Why do you think he cares about the trans activism? Has he out right come out and disagreed with it? No he hasn’t.

And regarding common sense you’d think he would have exercised some of that when he started a war with Iraq based on lies. You tell that to the men and women who were sent over or the parents of the ones that didn’t return

Agreed on Hatton, he won’t be afraid to say what he thinks. I’d like to be a fly on the wall in an office containing him and Joe Anderson.

However, if Derek Hatton, Tony Blair and Michael Portillo are all saying the same thing you can't really claim it's a left/right issue.

Why do you think he cares about the trans activism? Has he out right come out and disagreed with it? No he hasn’t

Like I say above - I think he's looking at it from an over-arching political perspective. Sometimes you have to take a longer, more strategic view. And that is certainly the case with TRA activism.

However, if Derek Hatton, Tony Blair and Michael Portillo are all saying the same thing you can't really claim it's a left/right issue

Yes, you're right. It is not a clear cut issue at all. Each of the above is coming from a different perspective and base. the one thing they have in common is that they can tell a man from a woman and they know that however one feels -sex is real.

The Iraq war is so, so far from the average voters conscience that it’s not even funny. Your average voter does not give two shiny shits about the Iraq war. It’s another example of the Labour party’s internal delusions, along with the current disappearing up it’s own arse over trans rights. Like Derek Hutton said, it’s completely missing the important issues of the day.

I've always had a bit of a thing for Tony Blair (I know, I know!)

I've met him a couple of times at charity events and in person he comes across as actually statesmanlike, until Long Failure. Keir is the vague compromise but he seems to have fallen for the TWAW trope as well.

I'm not expecting to see another Labour government in my lifetime (and I've got many a good year in me yet)

Don't worry @RedWineForMePlease I had a sex dream about Dominic Cummings

And as if it wasn't confusing / depressing enough to have men like Blair and Portillo speaking up, you can now add to the list Derek Hatton

And according to a post on WPUK thread you can add George Galloway to the list.

Makes you want to weep.

And at the Labour LBGTQ event Dawn Butler tried to give this rousning speech about how all these terfs and trans rights deniers are just a Tory plot to divide the Labour party!
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3828475-Lgbt-Labour-husting-live-stream

Its like they've all had a brain transplant or something. The fact that dont even bother to come up with some sort of token "We totally respect women's rights, but we need to work out a way to ensure trans rights". They've gone full on ultra as if from nowhere.

And regarding common sense you’d think he would have exercised some of that when he started a war with Iraq based on lies. You tell that to the men and women who were sent over or the parents of the ones that didn’t return

Well said. The invasion of Iraq triggered the largest refugee exodus since World War Two. In a country with a population of 27 million in 2003 that's some achievement. If he spent the century chanting Mea Culpa, it wouldn't be long enough.

stumbledin that 'Tory plot' conspiracy idea is interesting, but Dawn's got it the wrong way round. I've been thinking to myself that the Tories were the ones aiming to bring in self-ID, but have since gone almost silent on the matter. As such, Labour have been haranguing them as to when it's going to be brought in, loudly chanting TWAW, leaving an alienated electorate to turn to the Tories in their droves. Or at least, I'm not suggesting it's only the self-ID issue that's done that, but it's not exactly helping to win back their heartlands, is it? The Tories couldn't have cooked up a better way to turn the working class public away from Labour if they'd tried.

The labour party didn't need any help from the Tories on this they did it all on their own. Or rather they put up no resistance when the juggernaut headed towards them having successfully flattened the Lib dems and the greens. Meanwhile the same juggernaut is ploughing through Elizabeth Warren's campaign. They are just not very bright politically.

I'm in the PCS and don't really like Serwotka - he is adored at our local branch. However, our local branch is full-on TWAW so I will watch with interest how they deal with The Great Leader saying more GC leaning stuff.

stumbledin

And as if it wasn't confusing / depressing enough to have men like Blair and Portillow speaking up, you can now add to the list Derek Hutton

Eh? What is "confusing/depressing" about the fact 2 mainstream, very successful former politicians have spoken up? Are they not lefty enough for you?

Hatton is awful but what on earth is your objection to Blair and Portillo?