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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Fitness is feminist

67 replies

scrappydappydoooooo · 19/02/2020 11:11

Like a growing number of women as I started to head towards middle-age I decided to focus on my physical health. I became a parent in my mid-30s when I had already become slightly over-weight and through early parenthood, sleeplessness, my marriage ending, increased need to drive rather than walk, had bit by bit slid towards medical obesity and was deeply unfit. I lost weight through diet and by chance fell into a sport I am completely in love with. As I progressed at the sport I not only became fitter from it but started to include complimentary fitness activities into my life to make me better at my sport. At a couple of events I actually managed to scrape onto the list of 'elite athlete' competitors, (ie, finisher 198 of the top 200 in the athletic time zone). I entered my field too late in life to ever be world class but being able compete at the level I do is something that was genuinely confined to my wildest dreams a couple of years ago.

So far so good. But I'm now relatively 'well built.' My arms, shoulders, core and legs are strong and muscular. When I'm wearing a vest, regardless of how I hold my arms, you can see visible muscle definition. My calf muscles are obvious in flat shoes. When I'm sitting my thighs have visible definition. And I get sooooooo many shitty comments about it from people who are genuinely well meaning. Apparently I really need to be careful because I am 'starting to look like a man.' Now I know that people often have a completely different image of themselves in their heads to how they actually look. But I think I can definitively say I look absolutely fucking nothing like a man. I believe (I know) I look how a strong, healthy woman has evolved to be. Women also evolved biceps and triceps and abdominals and quads and calves. We evolved them for a fucking reason and somewhere along the way, it was decided in order to be a proper woman we shouldn't do activities that allow us to use our muscles to the fullness of our abilities.

And the thing is, by not developing our bodies we suffer in so many ways. I have experienced pain from a back injury I suffered in college for 20 years. But in the last 2 years it has completely disappeared. By building a strong core, I alleviated the pressure on my back and pain I've felt all my adult life went away. I should have been helped to build my core in the early aftermath of that injury and I'd have been spared actual decades of pain. But none of the many, many medical professionals I saw seemed to have a clue that my lack of strength was preventing me from healing. I look at my mother who from middle age has suffered from so many weaknesses, increases in pain, loss of bone density, flexibility, etc. And I'm really bloody angry that she was never encouraged to be strong. To exercise in a way that would build her muscles, strengthen her bones, ease pressure on her joints and lessen the impact of ageing. The vast, vast majority of women are going through life suffering needlessly because society tells us not to be strong. That developing the muscles on our women's bodies will make us too 'manly' and we should avoid it.

OP posts:
RuffleCrow · 19/02/2020 12:54

Can i also just (probably mis)quote Fleabag after she's been working out with a personal trainer and her dad comments on it.

Dad: You look... strong. Are you?

Fleabag: What? Are we gonna have a fight?!

Grin
DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 19/02/2020 12:58

There’s an excellent Instagram account called “you.look.like.a.man”, which is a collection of comments from, (mostly men), directed at female strength athletes. It might comfort you to know you’re not alone; although it’s sad that people feel the urge to be so derogatory.

You should be proud of your achievements OP; strength is not a solely male preserve.

Here is the wonderful Stefi Cohen with her PR 247kg (545 pound) deadlift, which is about 4 1/2 times her body weight.

andyoldlabour · 19/02/2020 13:00

First of all OP, a big well done for turning your life around, getting fit, becoming very good at a sport and basically turning yourself into a much healthier person.
The naysayers are probably jealous of your good health, which is why they are making rude/unacceptable comments about you.
As a bloke who used to do a couple of sports at a serious level, I have always thought that fit, vibrant, intelligent women are always more attractive.
That may sound a bit sexist coming from a bloke, but it can apply to blokes as well.
If you look at ex athletes on the TV - Gabby Logan, Denise Lewis, Jonathan Edwards, Colin Jackson, they simply glow with good health.
Just ignore the nasty comments and keep on enjoying your sport.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 19/02/2020 13:04

At a feminist event last year, one of the speakers said that making sure you were as fit and healthy as you could be, and perhaps taking up a form of self defense, was a really good, practical thing for a woman to do for herself.*

Grin Mark Rippetoe says, “Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general.”

I’ve gone back to weight training and despite my advanced years, I’m lifting heavier than I ever have and get such a sense of achievement from loading up a bar and hauling it off the floor.

ScapaFlo · 19/02/2020 13:06

Oh I want to go out and train now! I love that my friend doesn't do 'diet and exercise', she does 'eating and training'. I want to be like that 💪

iheartspiders · 19/02/2020 13:18

Thank you @DancelikeEmmaGoldman for introducing me to Stefi Cohen there. What a warrior! I just looked her up on IG and she's a Dr too!

I just started on weights before Xmas, with the motivation being that I want to go into middle age & menopause as fit and strong as I can be.

Now I want to be like Dr Cohen!

Weirdly, not, she's that strong and really doesn't look at all 'like a man'. OP should bookmark that video to show the next person who makes that comment.

@ScapaFlo, I'm stealing that mantra. "I don't diet & exercise, I eat and train". Thank you!

Is there a thread for weight training like there is for running..?

Reginabambina · 19/02/2020 13:51

@UpfieldHatesWomen @ErrolTheDragon maybe that’s just how I read it. But statements like ‘I look how a strong, healthy woman has evolved to be.’ ‘not developing our bodies’ Etc seem to carry the implication that there’s something wrong with women that don’t achieve muscle definition. I know that she’s speaking in reference to her own experience but equally her body type is the exception (assuming that she is indeed merely healthy as she claims although I would be inclined that it has more to do with her hobby than her health but obviously some women are naturally of a muscular build without any unusual or excessive training). It’s not right to send the message that a certain look is the correct way for a woman’s body to look. That simply isn’t true, we all have different builds and the way one person looks in perfect health is actually unhealthy for another, promoting the idea that women’s bodies have evolved to be muscular/not muscular etc isn’t helpful. We need to stop focusing on women’s bodies and think more about their needs.

UpfieldHatesWomen · 19/02/2020 14:06

I think you're taking what she's saying out of context, but I'll leave her to answer for herself.

Kilbranan · 19/02/2020 14:57

scrappy
I have recently taken up a sport too with my new found freedom (kids at school now) and am really happy to see my body change and become more muscular and strong. It’s also great meeting other women who are not bothered about make up/ ‘feminine’ clothes and more interested in improving performance / sporting ability. I love wearing a vest top to show off my muscles (admittedly they are only small, but still!) and like you wish there was more emphasis on healthy/ strong female bodies than the male perception of femininity/attractiveness. Well done on making so much progress and I hope you continue to enjoy it. It’s definitely great for self esteem (for me anyway)

ahumanfemale · 19/02/2020 15:03

I agree that fitness is a feminist issue, but coming from a different angle. I used to be very fit. Great stamina, strength, relatively supple. Then I got married and had kids. Ten years later, I'm a blob. DH still runs marathons, cycles 80miles for fun, swims regularly etc.

I'm not the only one with this pattern. There's always time for a father to get extra training in, but the mother will be the one with the kids during that 4hr bike ride, then the rest he has afterwards.

Look at marathon runners, there are women but in middle age range it's predominantly men. Look at who is with the kids watching at the sides, predominantly women. Try telling most of these men to reduce their training, or they're being selfish etc and great offence is taken.

I've managed to get DH to see this to the extent that he hasn't joined the ultra marathoners nor the Iron Man brigade, thank goodness, and he now calls the fathers who work full time and train for these events selfish! You simply cannot train for them AND look after your kids equally.

CaptainWentworth · 19/02/2020 15:22

@ahumanfemale I’m so glad you came on here and said that - that’s what I thought this thread was going to be about to be honest. My DH is dropping his hours slightly at work to give him more time to help at home, but it will also mean he has some time in the week when 16m DD is at nursery and he can go off on his bike.

We used to both run and cycle before she was born but now I have absolutely no idea where I’m supposed to fit it in. He says he needs to exercise for his mental health so I can’t really argue with that 🤷‍♀️

His father however from all accounts used to go off doing every type of sport under the sun leaving my MIL with their three boys every weekend, so I guess at least he’s a lot better than that!

ErrolTheDragon · 19/02/2020 15:32

He says he needs to exercise for his mental health so I can’t really argue with that

Likewise, surely he shouldn't be able to argue that you don't also need to exercise for your health.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 19/02/2020 21:13

Is there a thread for weight training like there is for running..?

iheartspiders - The Weight Room under the Exercise section on MN.

NeurotrashWarrior · 19/02/2020 21:32

I've only read the op but we'll done for getting to where you are!

I have been saying for a while that strength is what all women should be aiming for. Our bones and health really relies on it when we are older.

I experienced extreme weakness during a long cfs type illness; and yet I got many comments about my post baby body. I wasn't quite underweight but I was skinny. I couldn't even load a dishwasher at one point and looking after my active toddler was extremely hard.

It's a little known fact that women put on weight in pregnancy that's muscle; carrying baby regularly post pregnancy maintains this muscle for a reason; kids are hard work and I think there a link to remineralisation of bones post partum.

I also think the muscle strength during pregnancy could be a possible reason why many with cfs who become pregnant recover. It's certainly my experience.

I'm currently the heaviest I've ever been but most of it is muscle I've maintained post baby.

It's appalling that you've received such rubbish comments. Time to loose those friends I think. Or at least point out that you're less likely to fracture a bone if you fall.

Falls are what often hasten degeneration in the elderly as muscle mass deteriorates so quickly without use and the elderly struggle to build muscle as easily as younger people.

NeurotrashWarrior · 19/02/2020 21:36

Ahumanfemale - yes absolutely, that is the other side of the coin and why it's a feminist issue.

Im not able to get out much. I do do some Pilates and squats in the house when I can. Swim sometimes when ds has his lesson. Dh took up cycling when our first son was born which caused a lot of arguments as it also included going away for many long weekends. He hadn't done any of that before children; I had. Second child he recognised the inequality. So neither of us are doing much at the moment! But we will.

DidoLamenting · 19/02/2020 21:37

Reginabambina I agree with you. The opening post read that way to me too. There was a definite hint of "not like those other silly women" to it.

ahumanfemale · 19/02/2020 21:47

@CaptainWentworth mine says it's for his mental health too.

He recognises it's selfish to do more, but he won't do less to help my mental health. For him, compared to the other guys, he's already doing less.

I have a lot more to say about this, but given that I'm on the feminism board you can probably guess my thoughts! Wink

niceclock · 19/02/2020 21:50

I've always wondered if society deliberately conditions women to be weak. The high heels they can't run away in, the constrictive clothing that means they're physically hampered, the long hair to pull them about by, and yes, being underweight and with spindly arms so that, even if they wanted to, fighting back means nothing. Another way of keeping women in their 'place', (subordinate to men) maybe?

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 19/02/2020 21:57

Fantastic post, OP. And I'm so glad you respond to these ridiculous comments with a "no, I look like a strong woman".

Its definitely a feminist issue. Men are stronger, so I guess strength is considered a man attribute. Therefore perhaps men feel inadequate if women look strong, in case we look (or are) stronger than them. Which then becomes women need to not use this attribute of ourselves in case we step on any fragile man-toes. And then it becomes a negative attribute for women.

How could it possibly be! Rationally, I mean. Strength is a brilliant thing to possess. Not just for the practicality and the range of things it allows you to do, but also the confidence you get, and the health aspect.

FloralBunting · 19/02/2020 22:03

niceclock, I don't think you're even slightly wrong there. Think all the way back to corsetry and all that malarkey. It can be argued that corsetry did at one point have a positive aspect for women, but it didn't take long before it was all about restriction as a beauty ideal, which led to women who wore them being significantly weaker, and thus physical weakness and passivity became lionized as a fashionable 'feminine' trait. There are class issues connected to that, of course, too.

I think that the ability of women to give time to their physical fitness and health is the same sort of issue as their inability to engage fully in politics, in being able to financially support themselves adequately, find freedom when they find themselves abused. This is absolutely part and parcel of being an oppressed class.

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 19/02/2020 22:33

scrappy

What an inspiring op.
Mid 30s being over weight to being on the list of elite athlete competitors. That's incredible.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 19/02/2020 23:01

I dunno about women giving up fitness and men now.
When I was taking the kids to school, lots of SAHMs dropped the kids off in their gym gear or running gear, as they headed out to do their fitness activity.
It's just about what you prioritise when you have limited time.

FloralBunting · 19/02/2020 23:24

just about what you prioritise when you have limited time.

The point being here that women are so much more likely to have that time limited by caring responsibilities etc. Plus, ime, fitness stuff like that tends to be the preserve of women with certain class privilege - I know when I was a SAHM in a single earner household, we were barely scraping by and gym access was pie in the sky.

It's a complex picture in such a pluralist, divided society, but I think time and access is one strand, and the pervasive nature of stereotypes and beauty ideals is another.

quixote9 · 20/02/2020 05:23

Women aren't merely supposed to have indiscernible muscles, they're supposed to look weak.

I'm not sure it's possible unless you're good at acting, but try, looking just as you do now, to stoop and hunch and shuffle and look apologetic for taking up space. Presto, they'll find something else to slag you off for besides your muscles.

So much of what's considered "good" in women is some kind of pledge of allegiance to be no trouble at all to anyone, while bolstering egos and dealing with nappies. Muscles, on the other hand, say you might be a bit hard to push over.

You're absolutely right that they're the best thing ever. Stave off old age creakiness, make you comfortable in your life, are good for your metabolism, and look great.

Don't let the turkeys get you down.

SophocIestheFox · 20/02/2020 06:58

Great post, scrappy, and congratulations on your athletic achievements!

Fitness and strength absolutely are feminist issues. You never see men being encouraged to get a thigh gap, and don’t start me on the word “toned”! (it’s not a thing. You have muscle, which you can build, and it can either be covered with fat, or not. You can’t lengthen muscles either).

You don’t have to react to the naysayers, I think that would be the ideal time for a tinkly little laugh and an “oh, you’re so funny! .....oh. You weren’t joking. Gosh...right...” and let them squirm!

Naomi Wolf has gone off the reservation in recent years, but back in the day when she was writing decent feminist work, The Beauty Myth looked at how women convince ourselves that being skinny and small are positive virtues, and how we constrain our bodies in so many ways with clothes and shoes and beauty regimes. She called it the “Iron Maiden”.

I’m also an athletic person who had a few years in the wilderness of middle aged spread due to illness, and the sense of joy and contentment in my muscular, fit body makes me happy every single day. I have to say, I don’t experience the negative comments that you have though, maybe people are afraid that I’ll bench press them Grin

I totally agree with your comment that there’s nothing “manly” about muscle, and a strong woman looks like a strong woman, not a man.