Another family annihilator strikes *warning distressing details*

[Clymene]

Brisbane car fire: Ex-rugby player and three children die in 'horrific' incident https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-48778156

What kind of man sets fire to his children? In the DM, he is described as a loving father.

Yes the murder was horrific and the actions of the father/murderer were definitely unhinged. Since he stabbed himself to death, he was probably mentally unstable.
It reminds me of that family homicide where the mothers drove themselves and their children all off a cliff into the ocean.

How can we as a society not notice when a parent or parents are at breaking point? What causes this?

Not sure what is meant by “demographic has changed of late” the study is less than 3yrs old

I read that as referring to the demographics on MN PlanDeRaccordement. I haven’t read the thread on AIBU so can’t comment further.

The study you linked to included all instances of child murder. Unfortunately, because of the way data is collected across different countries, the study cannot differentiate between family annihilation and the larger numbers of child homicides. Posters are questioning the usefulness of highlighting a 50:50 split in all child homicides when the thread is specifically about family annihilation.

Plan did you read the link I posted up above ?

It’s the ultimate control.

The words you chose to use to respond to Rufus say an awful lot about you "Plan. "no need to get upset" and "why don't you scream* at them". Very loaded language. It makes your intent quite clear, in my opinion.

misogyny offers no explanation for the murder of boy children

You have no idea what misogyny means

Men’s violence is often framed as a mental health issue rather than a moral issue

We need to recognise that men use violence to achieve their goals and uphold their values. Violence is never random or accidental - it is enforcement

S above from Luke and Ryan hart
www.cocoawareness.co.uk/

No need to get so upset

Oh good lord

Not screaming, not upset

Thank you thyme

Going to take my own advice... 😀

You know, my dad tried to commit suicide, a few years after his twin brother did. In both cases it was because they had a flawed grasp of reality, their perception of events was distorted.

Any case of parents killing their kids who they love, and themselves, and even some where they don't kill themselves, seems to have a similar origin. Somehow they come to believe things would be better for their loved ones with all of them dead. Maybe the kids won't be able to cope without the parent, maybe they will be targeted, maybe they are infested by demons, whatever. Not rational thinking. That's what happens in mental illness.

I find it really shocking that anyone, whatever their sex, where all the evidence is that there is something like this going on, becomes generalised to some sort of political drum. Or that there is a complete denial that men suffer from mental illness that cause them to behave abnormally. Because that is what threads like this read like.

Rufus

That’s less relevant than what I posted because misogyny offers no explanation for the murder of boy children.

What?

Men who commit suicide and family annihilators (which is what this thread is about) are very distinct groups of men, though. It's not banging a "political drum" to recognise that the family annihilator is typically someone who is a domestic abuser and has ramped up the abuse to its ultimate crescendo. There has been research published on this:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23686913

Personally, I find it really shocking that so many people on this site are so invested in stopping people talking about family annihilators and trying to obscure the realities of this kind of crime. It's no wonder we are getting absolutely nowhere as a society in dealing with this kind of abuser. We are not even allowed to acknowledge that they exist.

There should be a law against decribing family annhilators in positive terms. It gives the impression that men can kill without negatively impacting their images in any way. Maybe a MN campaign? I'd call it "Stick to the Facts".

Yes that other thread is just disgusting. Almost as bad as the initial news headlines, which as usual read "family dies in car fire" - as if the car randomly burst in to flames. A man set poured petrol on and then set fire to his family in front of many witnesses, one of which suffered burns trying to help, his wife was screaming "he poured petrol on us". But yeah, I guess it's not clear who is at fault here

I saw a headline "Inferno Family"

Fuck me, that is gutter press in a nutshell

A passerby tried to get the children out and received burns in the unsuccessful attempt. He was out of the car and stabbing himself to death.

Fuck me, if that's true.

So... immolation good enough for his children, but too slow and painful for him?

GinnyLane, yup, so it would seem. You get the sense that he'd been brewing up for a while; the actions seem planned and envisaged. You don't accidentally rock up to a particular house at a particular time and find that, just by chance, you have petrol and the means to ignite it with you, do you?

If anyone imagines or suggests this man just suddenly 'snapped', they need to reconsider what was involved. Someone who 'snaps' might perhaps punch or grab or strangle a victim if they came across them, but not this. Not anything remotely like this. He will have slept on it, possibly more than once, and persisted with the plan.

It seems that the message being put forward is "since many parents of whatever sex kill their children, therefore a man killing his wife and children after abusing her for several years should not be discussed in those terms." With a side order of "he must have come to believe things would be better for his loved ones with all of them dead" and no possibility that he had shown himself to be violent and vengeful against his wife, to such an extent that the police had taken action about his behaviour at least once. Oh, and probably a few outlying "he just snapped"s, in spite of his clearly having polanned it and gone out to buy the petrol the night before....

Gah!

At least one person attempted to approach the car to get the children out , they were stopped by the violent man

holding a knife (the one who poured Petrol all over the children and struck a match)

I’m not sure how bad the fire was then - they may not have been able to get near the children. But they tried to help. And were stopped by the murderer

He not only murdered three young children and woman. He ensured they had the most terrifying and agonising death imaginable

Anyone low - key minimising what he did is despicable

He went to a Petrol station and filled a jerry with Petrol , before driving to where his wife was

He timed it for when she had put three kids into their sears ave was about to drive them to school. He had the family home, she left with nothing but the kids, she was trying to get them all to safety

He did not snap!!! It was cold, cold, cold, premeditated as hell

I have no words.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/11009522/outrage-police-suggest-abusive-rugby-player-driven-too-far/

Distressing but predictable details of the years of abuse Hannah suffered before this.

Hannah Clarke was abused for 10 years before burned to death

mol.im/a/8026497

I can’t go on the other thread because my blood pressure peaks.

I’m sure other people on here — it was certainly much discussed on Craicnet — remember the violent 2016 murder in Ireland of Clodagh Hawes and her three sons by her husband, their father, who then killed himself. The initial narrative until feminists and Clodagh’s family spoke out was a tragic tale of a ‘good man with MH issues who snapped’, and incredibly, after a collective funeral which was mostly about what a good guy and pillar of the community Alan was — and a eulogy which failed to mention that one of the dead had killed the other four, including a 13 year old, an 11 year old and a 6 year old with a knife — they were all buried together in the same plot. (Later he was exhumed.)

The officer has been now been removed from the case thank god.
I have no words though. We dont stand a chance.