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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Education or explusion - Labour MP for Nottingham East goes hard!

42 replies

pombear · 18/02/2020 20:01

If you thought it was just the runners for the labour leadership who are doubling down right now. No - many are at it, here they go:-

Nadia's clear on her stance:

twitter.com/NadiaWhittomeMP/status/1229741462859997185
@NadiaWhittomeMP
Replying to
@SocialistswithT

@shack69owo
and
@Labour_Trans
Yes, as I’ve said above, unrepentant transphobes/racists/misogynists etc. should be expelled.

The Labour Party should educate those who are ignorant rather than ideological. And if they don’t respond to education, they should also be expelled.

Respond to education ?

This is not a political party that I recognise.

OP posts:
PronounssheRa · 18/02/2020 20:05

Does Nadia have any idea what she sounds like? Respond to education (conform to our proscribed way of thinking) or we expel you.

I know she is young, but she is a MP for Christ's sake.

ChickenNuggetsChipsAndBeans · 18/02/2020 20:05

Labour needs to stop preaching to the electorate and start listening to them.

They are making themselves unelectable.

FearOfTheDuck · 18/02/2020 20:17

I hate to see the word education used when what is really meant is indoctrination. It's chilling.

PreseaCombatir · 18/02/2020 20:20

I hate to see the word education used when what is really meant is indoctrination. It's chilling
It really is.
Combined with the smugness and absolute self righteousness

zanahoria · 18/02/2020 20:22

A bit galling - being told that you need education from an utter moron

testing987654321 · 18/02/2020 20:25

Stalinist, as my partner said when I read it out. She's his MP so I have suggested he write to her.

zanahoria · 18/02/2020 20:28

labourlist.org/2020/02/labour-should-combat-transphobia-through-education-not-expulsions

does not say what they do with people who still disagree after 'education'

BreakWindandFire · 18/02/2020 20:30

Her tweet was in response to this article from one of the people behind that pledge.

Full text (if I'm allowed on here). It's very 'to the gulags with you!'

Labour should combat transphobia through education, not expulsions

There is undoubtedly an issue of transphobia in the Labour Party. The Labour Campaign for Trans Rights has been set up to combat this, as well as fight for positive advances for the rights of trans and non-binary people. We do this with a recognition that the Labour Party and the wider labour movement are crucial for winning and consolidating the rights of marginalised people within society. Of course, transphobia is prevalent within society as a whole, but we must put our own house in order if we are to change the world.

This is a two-way street. The labour movement benefits from the most marginalised people being able to freely, confidently and safely organise themselves and fight for better conditions. We recognise that the fight against women’s oppression and trans oppression are part of the same struggle – and those that seek to wrongly divide us only weaken our collective strength. We all stand to gain from the ability of trans people, within Labour and our trade unions, to organise and win.

It is important to address the question of how transphobia should be fought. As with similar issues of bigotry on the left, this is a point of contention. I am going to argue that we should not make the mistake of relying on bureaucratic machinery to solve problems of miseducation and ignorance. There have been popular calls amongst many of those in the party who oppose transphobia – and indeed antisemitism – to expel members who express such views. Despite this being one of the pledges put forward by LCTR, of which I am a member and co-founder, this position is understandable but misguided in my view.

There are individual cases in which protracted campaigns of harassment and bullying have taken place against activists in the party, and in these cases suspension and expulsion may be an appropriate course of action. But the problem of transphobia is widespread. If Labour were to attempt to purge the party of transphobic views bureaucratically, it is likely to end up expelling swathes of people whose transphobic views are not well-thought-out. Instead, they may be ignorant, or see their advocacy of women’s rights as being in conflict with trans rights.

Such a wave of expulsions would not only distance us from many who could, with some patience and education, be won round to the cause of trans rights. It would also serve to make party machinery the decision-maker as to who has crossed the line and therefore must be expelled. Such a situation would make Labour’s current inadequate democratic culture even worse.

If not expulsions, then what? I would advocate for a concerted campaign of education on the topic of trans rights as well as a culture of open debate and discussion. This is where our ideas come from, and it is the lifeblood of a vibrant labour movement. This position can be caricatured: some assume that what is being called for is a staged debate between a trans person on one side and someone who seeks to deny trans people of their right to any kind of dignified existence on the other. This is, of course, not what is meant.

What I’m talking about is fora in which people are able to effectively challenge and convince those that hold transphobic views of the importance of supporting the rights of trans and non-binary people. We have to educate activists – including trans people, as well as cis allies – in order to give people the skills to confidently challenge these ideas wherever they rear their head in the labour movement.

LCTR will have a key role to play in facilitating education in the Labour Party and creating a culture in which trans and non-binary people are able to engage in the movement that best represents their class interests. We all stand to gain from this, and we hope that those concerned with fighting for a better party will join us in the struggle.

Christie Neary is a Labour Party member and co-founder of the Labour Campaign for Trans Rights.

BreakWindandFire · 18/02/2020 20:30

Whoops, cross-post with zanahoria

Antibles · 18/02/2020 20:45

Chilling indeed.

They have completely and utterly forgotten what an MP's job is: they are supposed to REPRESENT us, not RE-EDUCATE us.

Mockersisrightasusual · 18/02/2020 20:52

“Some party hack decreed that the people had lost the government's confidence and could only regain it with redoubled effort. If that is the case, would it not be be simpler, if the government simply dissolved the people and elected another?”

Berthold Brecht, 1953

Freespeecher · 18/02/2020 20:55

She's very, very young and would probably have been Militant in a different age (think she's the one who's taking a 'worker's wage').

VinandVigour · 18/02/2020 20:59

This is the most chilling tweet I have seen from a Labour MP on this. I am sickened to the core and quite frankly fearful. How did she get through the election process?

Antibles · 18/02/2020 21:00

Ha, yes mockers. We are such a disappointment to the Left.

CharlieParley · 18/02/2020 21:03

Does the education aspect apply the other way round? Because a lot of people who support these types of pledges do not know anything about our concerns. Or that we support equal rights for all, including those who identify as trans.

If they expressed a willingness to listen and learn about the needs of women in return for us listening to their concerns, we could have a respectful conversation about the issue.

And we could avoid all of this nonsense.

littlbrowndog · 18/02/2020 21:07

Khmer Rouge. Wtaf is going on with labour

Freespeecher · 18/02/2020 21:08

I can only assume she's jumping in to take the heat off Dawn Butler.

twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1229835974894596096?s=20

DresdenChina · 18/02/2020 22:23

This is exactly how i said she would turn out when Leftie people i knew were falling over themselves to say how fantastic it was too have such a fresh voice.

Some facts:

She portrays herself as working class ( in a very worked up narrative with only a glancing relationship with the truth) despite having lived in the catchment area and educated in one of the poshest areas in Nottingham and one of the top 100 non-selective state-funded schools in England, her plummy accent is a million miles away from Notts.

She was parachuted in by Party seniors ( just like her predecessor Chris Leslie) an apparently very popular middle aged working class white woman expected to win the local party votes was blocked from even being in the candidate group which ended up being BAME only women from around the Country. The ill feeling was so bad local papers reported the Police being called.

She was picked as a future 'chosen one' by the seniors when very young and literally shopped around Council and Regional hustings until it stuck. That's why she didn't finish her Degree it seems, unlikely because she was too poor as claimed.

I have nothing negative to say about much of her activisim concerning bedroom tax, but the above and now this. I hope they eat her up and spit her out in Parliament.

Coyoacan · 18/02/2020 22:41

Some wee twirp in the SNP has a post in the youth wing and got his arse handed to him when he said that he planned to educate the older members. He's 19 ffs and in first or second year of university.

DtPeabodysLoosePants · 18/02/2020 22:50

No wonder the Tories were re-elected when this is the opposition. I be one more and more politically homeless with each passing day.

Education? Perhaps they should start with biology. Or educate themselves as to their own role as an MP.

I'm not sure if politicians should be banned from twitter or if it's better to have their inner thoughts publicised so willingly so that we know exactly what they think and feel.

Councilworker · 18/02/2020 23:54

Dresden, that's sent me on a bit of a deep divr for more background on Nadia.
She talks about being working class etc but her mother qualified as a solicitor in 1996 which is around the time Nadia was born. Nadia did parliamentary internship in 2016 while also doing an Access Course after her A levels then into Uni in 2017 where she was still Gen Sec of the BME until June 2019. She seems to have quit around the time she geared up to be a PPC.

It is as you say, a very carefully crafted narrative. I don't doubt she is a young woman with excellent intentions and I fear that her youth and eagerness to do good and ensure minorities are represented in public life will mean she will be absolute manna to TRAs seeking to use her for their own ends.

Incidentally I think nobody should be an MP unless they've had to sort out paying their own council tax and bills. That would exclude the very young and the very privileged but might make the electorate feel more in touch with their representatives

Goosefoot · 19/02/2020 00:09

There is a good reason many societies turn governance over to elders. However, there tends to be a sort of innate conservatism in that which doesn't sit well with the concept of constant progress (towards what, one wonders?)

GeordieTerf · 19/02/2020 01:43

Oh wow. She is doubling down big time.

I actually feel quite bad for her. She's a young and new MP with limited real world experience. Therefore, she's an easy target for certain people from certain movements. Methinks she will live to regret these comments.

theflushedzebra · 19/02/2020 02:29

Dear Nadia Whittome,

Do not dare to think you can educate me, I am a feminist twice your age, and with twice your lived experience. Come back to me when you're my age. I thought we had it all when I was your age too - but I was never arrogant enough to think I could tell older feminists/second wave feminists what's what. Older feminists fought for the rights you're frittering away in the name of wokeism.

Yours,
Zebra.

AnyOldSpartabix · 19/02/2020 05:18

But the problem of transphobia is widespread. If Labour were to attempt to purge the party of transphobic views bureaucratically, it is likely to end up expelling swathes of people whose transphobic views are not well-thought-out. Instead, they may be ignorant, or see their advocacy of women’s rights as being in conflict with trans rights.

Widespread and increasing daily as more and more people become aware of what’s happening. Ignorant? The delusional world some people exist in remains astonishing.