New rules NHS staff can refuse to treat racist or sexist patients.

[Procrastinator2]

news.sky.com/story/nhs-staff-can-refuse-to-treat-racist-or-sexist-patients-under-new-rules-11937175

Matt Hancock says "All assault and hate crimes against NHS staff must be investigated with care, compassion, diligence and commitment," he said.

I think this could probably be used to stop women requesting natal female health care professional.

'how have we got into a position where we have increasing numbers of people in the UK whose values don't include basic behaviour skills, self control, respect for others and boundaries? What's caused this massive lack of respect for nhs staff? What is reinforcing this?

In my humble opinion it's a real mix. Societal norms have changed. Behavior that would never have been accepted 10 years ago now is.
I had a student nurse straight out of school tell me yesterday that she doesn't care when her break time is she will go for her break when she is hungry!?! I would never have spoken and still wouldn't speak to a senior like this!
Attitudes have changed towards one another. Value systems within the UK have changed. If a police officer, school teacher, postman, shop assistant, vet etc get no respect we cannot expect the general public to respect and treat NHS staff well.
If someone is in hospital or accessing NHS facility's they are unwell they are vulnerable and scared unfortunately this can result in aggression or unwanted behavior.
Of course a number of factors influence this I.e waiting times, illness, being vulnerable. But at the basic level we are no longer being kind to one another and this results in antisocial behavior in many situations.

That would be 50% of my patients then.
I can't refuse to see half of my patients, might come in handy if I have a hangover

I don't see how this is workable in any case. We can complain about pt. behaviour now however nothing can be done. If we have a pt. who is abusive or dangerous to a group of staff (e.g. should only be seen by men for safety reasons) or requests to only be seen by a certain group of staff (e.g. abused woman does not want male staff) we can accommodate in that moment however we are not able to add a note to the system to record this. Regardless of it being for our comfort or theirs we cannot record anything which may prejudice care. We literally rely on admin remembering which pts. are dangerous to certain staff and the pts rely on admin remembering for their comfort. The system is ridiculous.

Hm. I wonder if requesting a female doctor, would now come under sexism aswell as transphobic..

Nothing will change.
There are posters up all over the hospital warning about abusive behaviour, makes no difference.

It’s another veiled attempt at superficial action by a useless politician.

I will still get assaulted and abused at work, I will still get charged to park at work, I will still work 13 hours without a cup of water or passing urine, I will still get off work late shift after shift and not get that time back, I will still go to my ward and be moved to another and put into a dangerous and impossible position regularly.
Being verbally abused is a tiny drop in a huge sewage pit of horror.

'how have we got into a position where we have increasing numbers of people in the UK whose values don't include basic behaviour skills, self control, respect for others and boundaries? What's caused this massive lack of respect for nhs staff? What is reinforcing this?
This is a good question. Lots of causes but one is the change from a citizen culture to a customer culture. Customer is always right. You're there to provide a service. I pay your wages sense of entitlement. This coupled with lack of communication skills. Often people weigh in with aggression because of experience of not being listened to, a kind of pre-emptive strike.

People are much more polite and patient when they don't feel like they are having to fight for resources.

I think this does affect people, but my gut feeling is that it isn't the reason for this problem.

I think staffing levels are part of it. You need a certain number of people to operate properly.

But I can't help thinking it reminds me of what is also going on in schools and universities and even sometimes in some workplaces. I feel like an old fogey saying it, but it's like people don't know how to behave. They don't have a sense of rules of behaviour, how to work in a group in a way that makes it easier for others.

I work in an elementary school, and my boss is about the same age as my mother, who was a nurse. I find it really interesting that they both describe very similar changes in their experience over the years in these two sectors. My boss is continually saying that the kids we see don't know what is expected or how to regulate behaviour compared to the past, and more to the point, that the teachers don't know how to manage the class, or seem to expect the class to be manageable - even though there are fewer kids and they have assistants.
Now, you might say that is because there is more classroom integration, but my mother finds the same thing in hospitals. Again, it sounds like bah humbug, but when she was a young nurse they has serious expectations about how the wards were kept (line up the wheels on the beds), about how nurses dressed (starched caps and the whole bit)and there were also expectations about how people behaved on wards, particularly guests, and the authority the nurses had was significant - some would say they were power hungry and it was way over the top. Of course there were patients who were out of it, bad etc, but proportionally that seemed more contained.

I've noticed the same thing when I'm at the university. Expectations for behaviour are low, and ability to self-regulate among students seems low as well. Boundaries around personal behaviour are also eroded, and students can't cope with problems.

I just feel like these things are related somehow.

Being verbally abused is a tiny drop in a huge sewage pit of horror.

This is so true!

I think in certain circumstances, professionals should be able to refuse treatment when it will not cause harm to a patient. For example, refusing to treat a racist patients ingrown toenail and asking a colleague to do it is perfectly fine.

It all depends on if the patient has capacity and know what they are doing.

In mental health where I work, it's a free for all and patients can get away with so much as police use the excuse of mental health to stop investigating assaults.
Obviously if a patient is psychotic, paranoid etc, that is not their fault but a lot of the time they do have capacity to know what they are doing.

My female colleague was attacked on the ward recently, she was strangled and I had to try and pull the patient off. We called the police as he had capacity and was boasting 'I'll pull the mental health card'.
The police dropped him at home with his elderly mother, who the week before he had attacked.

The amount of time I have seen my colleagues attacked, been called a cu*t, threatened with rape, I've lost count.
At least A+E staff have security, we don't even have that.
It's the abuse that has nurses leaving in droves.

Totally. I handed my notice in the day after I was pinned against the wall and called a fucking white cunt bitch.

40 years nursing. Society has become so selfish and entitled now. It’s no wonder we have such a nursing shortage.

For example, refusing to treat a racist patients ingrown toenail and asking a colleague to do it is perfectly fine.

But what about the colleague?

I rather suspect being told to refrain from swearing and hurling racist abuse at staff or you’ll have to leave would go a little way to stopping people in their tracks.

If you need resuscitation you aren’t usually well enough to be violent. If you’re in the throes of a major asthma attack or anaphylaxis you aren’t likely to be capable of creating much fuss.

A broken wrist from falling drunken down staircase won’t usually kill you. If you have a non life-threatening condition and are abusive you should be warned and then removed. Grazed knuckles and a broken nose can wait until the following day, if a person is abusing staff. We should adopt a zero tolerance approach instead of normalising it.

More Drunkard holding/ sleep it off facilities should be provided in city centres to reduce the burden on accident and emergency departments. Local bars and pubs should have to fund them.

The person with an ingrowing toenail should be sent packing and told to pay for a podiatrist or treat it themselves at home. Nobody should have to treat them until they can be civil. Racism isn’t only the problem of those who are subject to it.

I was kicked in the cheat & sent flying across the ward, it also hurt my back.
A week off work, first sickness period for over 10 years led to me questioning my future in nursing.
The mans wife laughed when she was informed of this assault and just commented that he does get “twitchy “ when in hospital.

Fuck that. Fuck it.
Fuck off. If that ok and something to fucking laugh at, fuck it.

crosser62 was any legal action taken? He should have been arrested.

crosser62 He should have been shown the door and have been prosecuted.

No.
No legal action. It was just accepted.

Security (2 of them for the entire hospital) were busy in a&e.

Understand that this is a day in day out occurrence on almost every ward in the hospital.
It is an accepted part of our job.
Yes. ACCEPTED.
They cannot prosecute every time this happens.

It shouldn't be accepted. Have you talked to your union. No wonder Matt Hancock wants all assaults investigated, I'm not his greatest fan by a long way but I agree with him.

I hope you are OK.

Ffs, that is exactly why this is being brought in! How many universities are banning feminist, or simply non pro-trans speakers now?! And is there some point system? Like being sexist is only 10, racist 20 and trans-phobic 100?

Working in mental health, we get some horrific abuse and treated like crap on a daily basis. Obviously there is difference between someone with say schizophrenia who is in the grasp of a psychotic episode and doesn't know what they are saying and someone who doesn't actually need to be there and who gives abuse because they aren't getting exactly what they want.

I am in 100% support of refusing to treat (unless like threatening) off the back of abuse. Followed by prosecution.