RLB on Marr this morning

[Cwenthryth]

He’s got it completely and is tackling her head on about signing the trans pledge. He’s quoted Jess Philips, Karen Ingala Smith and Laura Pidcock at her. She really doesn’t understand. She doesn’t even know what she signed. And now she’s just cited suicide rates. 🤦🏻‍♀️

She either lacks morals or intelligence or both.

Oh come on, that's obviously not true. It's definitely both :-)

Thanks for the detailed post LCIS

AM: You have signed a pledge, which you must have read before you signed it, which says that people - organisations such as Woman's Place UK, people who support that should be kicked out of the Labour Party. You signed that pledge.

RLB: I don't - I don't think it says that. I think it says that anybody who's found guilty of transphobic behaviour should be kicked out of the Labour Party and that's my firm position...

It says:

10. Support the expulsion from the Labour Party of those who express bigoted, transphobic views.

(The rest of the text makes it clear what "bigoted transphobic views" amount to.)

twitter.com/Labour_Trans/status/1226939313264394241/photo/2

So she can technically wriggle off that hook, if she really wants to, claiming that her understanding of expressing "transphobic views" equals discriminatory behaviour under the party's rules.

Is Jess Phillips a new supporter of WPUK? That surprised me

No, she still chants TWAW and seems to support self ID; but she's said WPUK's requests are reasonable and has sublty criticised some of the more batshit Genderist proclimations.

If she was still in the race she'd be the least bad option.

God, she's awful. It was the dismissive laughter throughout that interview that got to me. Sounded like a sixth former regurgitating theories picked up on Tumblr, then trying to explain them to her mum, laughing through a presumption of moral superiority and being more in the know. She can piss off with that shit.

Why is there no demand to self id with a different race, religion or disability?

To be fair, you DO self ID into religion

Yes but what if I want to do a P Bunce - I could be Christian at Christmas, Muslim at Eid etc. Think of the extra holidays.

REBECCA LONG-BAILEY: Trans rights are not in conflict with women's rights.

ALSO REBECCA LONG-BAILEY: I want to abolish these women's rights from the Equality Act because they are in conflict with trans rights.

From twitter

A couple of years ago Jess Phillips retweeted WPUK's 5 demands and said they seemed reasonable. She was met by a MASSIVE wall of people tweeting TWAW. She's been trying to quietly distance herself ever since, without ever coming out and saying what's wrong with WPUK's position.

I think she'd be the worst option if she was still in the race. At least with Nandy and Long-Bailey you can put it down to ignorance. Phillips is on the Women & Equalities Select Committee. She sat through all the evidence in the Trans Equality Inquiry and all the evidence in the Equality Act Inquiry. She's been instrumental in pushing for GRA reform. Somehow she still doesn't understand what the spousal exit clause in the GRA means.

If I had to vote it would be for Starmer. Frankly I'm just glad that it's not my circus.

If she was still in the race she'd be the least bad option.

Jess Philips? Didn't you follow the Mumsnet Webchat debacle? She was one of the MPs who called for reform of the GRA, and thinks the Spousal Exit Clause ("veto") is "awful".

My take from the interview.

Long bailey either signs things she hasn't read, read the pledge and signed it without understanding it, or is an outright liar.

I wouldn't trust her to run a bath nevermind the country.

Also interesting that she will discuss abortion limits with (male) Catholic priests, but signs pledges denouncing women's rights groups.

RLB is an outright liar in that interview, too - she claimed to have supported independent disciplinary processes in the party, when she has done the opposite, and gone out of her way repeatedly to block independence.

Thankfully, I think she has little chance of winning.

But if she does, the Labour Party is finished.

Trans people who were born male must have everything they want at the expense of women, regardless of the impact on women. People with penises are just more important. Sucks to be female.

She couldn't make it any clearer.

If I said what I thought of her I'd be deleted. So I'll To rhyme with a good old MN

No, it's right to talk about the safety of women. No-one would discriminate anybody in our party for doing that, but it's not at the expense of trans rights

So trans rights take priority over the safety of women.

Completely agree. This was not in the 'stealth plan.'

Friend messaged me this morning saying she'd read a couple of Harry and Labour trans articles and "is this what I've been banging on about"?
I think she had an "I see" moment.

Aesop exactly, trans trumps women in RLB world. She put on a bit of a sad face when the Ingala Smith quote about women in refuges was read out but then basically said trans rights come first. Later she did the bleat about how difficult a journey it is to "change sex, if I will"

I wish AM had more time, skewer her on defining what constitues transphobia. She basically said a debate could be had about womens rights but not if it upset any trans. I.E. No debate.

"No, it's right to talk about the safety of women. No-one would discriminate anybody in our party for doing that, but it's not at the expense of trans rights" says RLB. But the thing is IF you do talk about the safety of women, you will be labelled a hate group Like WPUK) or an individual will be accused of hate speech and subject to her "independent" disciplinary procedure and basically discriminated against. So much for safety and FOS.

I don't think it's trans in general that trumps women for Wrong-Daily, she has never said a word about transmen that I've heard. Nor are there TM demanding the head of women's rights be served up to them on a plate.

This is basic misogyny. Males are more important than females' rights, safety or anything else, and need to know their place in Rebecca's opinion.

SadatSea but she was not even comparing Women’s rights and trans rights; she was saying trans rights take pecidence over women’s safety.

Forget definitions, I would like to AM to have asked why we have single sex spaces, such as single sex wards, prisons, communal changing rooms etc, in the first place?

@Aesopfable

Yes - if they don’t know why there are single sex exemptions were needed and enacted in the first place, they have no right to take them away.

Keir should do a Zuby, and just identify as a woman on the day of the leadership election. That way the Labour Party can say they elected a woman leader for the first time, Rayner gets to be deputy to the woman leader she wants and Long-Bailey gets to see the benefits of self-ID in action and can cheer the silver lining to her own personal loss

OMG this is brilliant. Someone put this to him pleeeese

In fact if someone would be so kind as to find email addresses, I will happily email kier and rlb

I was very pissed off with Kier after the Mumsnet webchat but he really is the only hope.

I fully believe Starmer believes and agrees with every word Wrong Daily says, he just thinks she's stupid to tell people before they've voted.

Jess Philips? Didn't you follow the Mumsnet Webchat debacle? She was one of the MPs who called for reform of the GRA, and thinks the Spousal Exit Clause ("veto") is "awful".

I did indeed: as I said in the previous part of the post, she's clearly on the self-ID bandwagon but at this point 'willing to say she won't expel people for wrongthink' is the least worst option.

I would not, personally, vote for any of them- I can't hold my nose any longer.