Gaby Hinsliff in the Guardian

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Essentially an appeal to build bridges. At least the argument is being acknowledged although it still appeals to the "be nice" by stating that But nobody should want trans people to feel unsafe or cast out, and barring a trans woman from women’s services seems the cruellest of personal repudiations.

It's that rohypnol again, it does sound cruel to ban "a trans woman from women's services". Words are powerful and we should use words more accurately.

Why the battle over trans rights is a minefield for Labour
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/15/trans-rights-labour-leadership-candidates?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

It's a gentle bit of reverse ferreting by the Guardian and Gaby, both aware that there is a risk that they might er..turn out to be on the wrong side of history.

Very half arsed though.

I just rolled my eyes at the 'cruel repudiation' bit.

No thanks, I'm done with being kind. If there's a practical reason that those services or spaces exist, and exist for women only, then we keeping them that way ta very much.

Get yer own. I'll help, but get yer own.

xxyzz VG point, hadn't seen it that way. Ok, it's limp but it's actually acknowledging the issue, so is progress.

I think The Guardian are finally realising that this is a really serious problem for Labour and it is going to be an issue for the leadership candidates. There is no hiding for the candidates after the publicity this week, I presume they will be asked about their views in hustings/interviews. I am so disappointed in Lisa Nandy, awaiting to hear more from Keir Starmer.

I refuse to click on anything Gaby “they deserved it because they own mobile phones” hynchcliff writes. I want nothing to do with her internal misogyny.

But nobody should want trans people to feel unsafe or cast out, and barring a trans woman from women’s services seems the cruellest of personal repudiations

But being sexually assaulted by Karen White - fully enabled by this bullshit - isn’t that cruel... Right?

Some schools absorb gender-questioning pupils without fuss; teens queue happily

Or is it because they are frightened about being called T**Fs (Woodside School) and reported for a hate incident.

Girls feeling ‘unsafe or cast out’ for not wanting to be forced to get changed in front of transwomen -male bodied adults- ......?! Nope nothing about that here...

No mention of Girl A - arguing against Oxfordshire County Council’s Schools Trans advice. She doesn’t count.

Unlearn you’re discomfort girls... Peter Tatchell and Gaby Hinchcliffe know what’s best

you’re Your

I did like this point But there’s nowhere to hide in a leadership contest.

It's women's persistence in holding meetings, asking questions etc which means they had to speak on this issue. It's good to have it out in the open.

I'm pleased she's coming round but Gaby has written some incredibly misogynistic messages over the last few years and has been a campaigner for 'transwomen are women'

Has she apologized for her Cologne piece yet and admitted how very wrong she got that? No? Can't say I'm particularly inclined to view her as an authority on anything after that.

(It's not often one piece of writing would have me putting someone in the "nope, fuck off forever" category but seriously, did you read it?)

Gaby also fails to mention the potential dangers in allowing any man who self ids into female only spaces, simply, it is open to exploitation. And any women pointing this out are no longer welcome in the Labour Party according to some of the leadership candidates.

I don’t understand her comment about ‘two marginalised groups, each demanding protection from the other‘.

Women are asking for single-sex facilities and sports, protected from male intrusion, yes.

But are transwomen demanding to be protected from women? Seems more common to demand to be with women than protected from them.

She comes close. She identifies that politicians and don’t want to speak out, don’t want to take a position, don’t understand why they don’t want to be heard. Then she fails to go the last step and point out why: because they are abused, cancelled, shouted down, and threatened with violence. This failure is then reflected in the later part where she thinks children don’t have problems at school.

It’s like a big dot-to-dot article and someone took Gaby’s chunky crayons away so it was left unfinished.

I remember the Cologne piece in The Guardian and being stunned (not in a good way) by it.

the "nope, fuck off forever" category but seriously, did you read it? I don't think I did kittens. I linked to this more because I think average Guardian readers will see it. They will be completely oblivious to the much more logical articles being written in The Times, The Telegraph and The Spectator.

“To ban a man from teenage girls’ changing rooms seems like the cruellest of repudiations”.

Bluntly, what the Cologne piece told me is that Gaby has absolutely terrible judgement, a truckload of internalized misogyny, and no apparent backbone. So there is nothing surprising about the fact that she can't bring herself to say "maybe women have a right to object to being forced to accept random cock in spaces where we're naked" without then going "oh but that would be so cruel! how low can I limbo in order to prove that I'm a good girl who would hate to ever come across as thinking I deserve any rights? is this low enough? because I can go further, and other women bloody well better do the same if they know what's good for them".

There's a specific issue around pupils in SEND schools / colleges that teach pupils with autism in particular.

A young female who identifies as male may need specific physical support in specific circumstances to either keep themselves safe or support them with intimate hygiene etc.

In these situations a clear sex policy must be adopted in order to both protect her and staff; it would not be appropriate for a a male staff member to be dealing with the young person in a number of circumstances and vice versa.

They would also need to understand the sex based reasons behind this to maintain relationships with staff and understand situations in a debrief, and so an institution blurring the boundaries of sex and gender and having affirming policies across teaching and general practice opens themselves up to all sort of complex safeguarding issues.

I do agree though that this sort of "both sides!" nonsense is about as much as can realistically be expected from The Guardian at this point. Watching them realize that they may have committed to a position that the general public views as absurd, after having spent years lecturing everyone about how abhorrent it is not to share that position, is grimly amusing.

The thing that annoys me most about Hinsliff is she’s either really stupid, or thinks all the people who reads her articles are really stupid. SunsetBeech can find these articles on a regular basis and updates the “This Never Happens” thread.

mobile.twitter.com/WNTTgra/status/1228347809298092033?s=19

So either Hinsliff is too stupid, as a journalist, to believe there are occurrences where children at schools are being placed in untenable positions, OR Hinsliff thinks we are all too stupid to find out about these sorts of things ourselves.

Thank you Gaby it is now ok for women to exclude transwomen from the spaces in exceptional circumstances. Fuck off - this sop isn’t worth anything. Single sex spaces are that - single sex.

It's a puff piece - saying yes there should be a debate but hey the outcome should absolutely be that trans women be allowed in women's spaces , except maybe if pushed a Karen White type who may possibly be stopped by a risk assessment.

Also never forgiven her for the "poor marginalised men taking revenge on those young women having a night out in their own town with expensive mobile phones, how could they not commit mass organised rape and sexual assault?" Cologne column.

Fuck off Gaby. I don't read the Guardian anymore and you're one of the reasons why.

Irefuse to click on anything Gaby “they deserved it because they own mobile phones” hynchcliff writes. I want nothing to do with her internal misogyny

Me too. She is an idiot of the first order.

I think many Guardian columinists have a tone of contempt for ordinary people, on this issue they can't just dismiss the views as 'stupid' as there are so many intelligent women speaking out about it.