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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Collapse of confidence in police

85 replies

BovaryX · 15/02/2020 06:50

The Telegraph reports that public confidence in the police to investigate actual crimes is at an all time low. This is in the same issue which gives prominent coverage to Harry Miller's case.

As few as one in nine people believe police would solve their case if they were victims of crime, according to an exclusive YouGov poll that exposes a collapse in public confidence in the criminal justice system.

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Thinkingabout1t · 15/02/2020 11:22

Now they take on jobs for special interests groups there's nothing left to respect. Visiting people who have not committed a crime to threaten them makes the police just another gang to deal with and avoid.

Lasttrain, that is shockingly true.

FleetsumNJetsum · 15/02/2020 11:29

The Daily Mail is also reporting the statistics uncovered by the Telegraph which reveal 120,000 people have non crime incidents recorded against them, potentially affecting their employment opportunities

Scarily similar to the social credit system in China. Behave, or suffer the consequences

SirVixofVixHall · 15/02/2020 11:34

A man seriously injured (came close to killing) one of my children, through extreme negligence . I assumed he would be prosecuted, but no. The police believed the lies that it was a random accident, and he has a clean DBS check still, and is able to continue working with children. I have lost all faith in the police.

Dinosauratemydaffodils · 15/02/2020 11:35

I had one horrendous experience with a policeman which left me with a diagnosis of pstd but I rationalised it by telling myself the fact that he was a police officer was a red herring. He was also a complete and utter bastard who committed a crime and hurt me really badly mentally and physically.

But since then it's been a slow drip. Working with them and hearing the most disgusting comments about my service users who for various reasons had turned to prostitution (mostly drug dependency). The fact that they terrified one of my teenage clients by smashing down the door to her temporary accommodation whilst looking for someone who had moved out weeks ago. No apology was forthcoming.

The racism shown to my black flatmate at University when she was attacked by a group of white men and the change in their attitude when I opened my mouth.

Throwing them out of my inlaws house when they tried to bully dh into admitting he'd hit a car and then left the scene of accident. The fact that he had proof he was with his accountant cut no ice...apparently accountants lie all the time.

Dh being repeatedly targeted when we first got together in our early twenties because he drove a Nova and therefore must be into drugs. He got threatened one particular night for "acting dumb" just because he didn't know what "wacky backy" was. Fair enough he was probably the only 20 something in the country who didn't but still...

The policeman who saw marks on my wrists (from moving furniture) whilst we were sat next to each other at a meeting and decided that dh must be abusive. He went from the "you can talk to me" all understanding to being quite aggressive about it frighteningly fast. I also got a visit at work from a domestic violence specialist officer. Then for the next so many months the referal forms to the domestic abuse support workers kept turning up on my desk.

I have zero faith in them.

Bananabixfloof · 15/02/2020 11:55

Well we had the chance to elect a government prepared to invest in public services and we didn’t do it
It's not solely a this government thing, I've been very wary of the police for decades now.

Childhood abuse reported 1989, a statement was taken. There it ended.

Burgled 1998, they didnt care. I called them cos me and my young children were in the house as it was being burgled. Terrifying. But no one even came out.

Reported lead stolen from roof circa 2000, not even a crime number.

Police at my door several times looking for a specific person, would not believe that I had no clue who it was. The final time they came to arrest me cos "i was sheltering the person" then they finally look at the paperwork, find out it's the wrong fucking street. Circa 2005.

Police at my door telling me to put my bonfire out, I kind of stared incredulously at them, because I didnt have a bonfire burning. Despite me showing them the next door neighbour had a fire that was fuck all to do with me, all the officer kept saying was "you need to put your fire out". Thickest person I've ever met. Circa 2009

One of my children assaulted. They sent two officers out who just harangues me to forget about it. Not make a fuss etc. Left me in tears. I had to report them. That was 2009.

Pretty much every time I think I should tell the police stuff, I think again and dont bother.

Socrates11 · 16/02/2020 21:42

More surprised if people have got confidence in the police & criminal justice system. So much corruption, racism, sexism been going on for years & contempt for the public.

Orgreave
Daniel Morgan murder
Battle of the Beanfield
Hillsborough
Stephen Lawrence
Jean Charles De Menzes
The absolutely disgusting Spycops abuse
Sapphire Unit
www.channel4.com/news/sapphire-sex-crime-unit-guilty-of-shocking-failings
Rotherham, Oxford, Rochdale,...
Deaths in Custody - see Inquest for info
Shana Grice
Natalie Connelly

Personal experience has not changed my POV, at all. Arrogant, bullying and brutish in the main. Not to be trusted. Willing to break laws themselves and be untouchable (no seatbelt, using a mobile phone & laughing about tax avoidance when I was in a police car with one not too bright example)

Thought the idea was for them to serve the public but too rarely see that in evidence.

toothfairy73 · 17/02/2020 14:18

@Bananabixfloof I'm sorry the police didn't listen in 1989 re childhood abuse. It is possible to report again and it will be taken seriously now warriorwoman.blog/

MrsNoah2020 · 17/02/2020 14:44

(NC as identifying) I'm a GP. A patient seriously assaulted 2 members of staff in front of a waiting room of witnesses. Both members of staff needed medical treatment and one of them was so traumatised that she has never come back to work.

Guess who the police charged?....... The two members of staff.

The patient claimed that the staff had attacked him. The police apparently took seriously his claim that a 5'2" middle-aged female receptionist had spontaneously attacked a much larger man. Did the police bother to contact any of the witnesses who had the true story? Nope.

We were told by another police officer that this had happened because the patient was a Mason. IDK if that's true but certainly something extremely odd was going on.

I was amazed. I'm not naive - I have worked with the emergency services in deprived areas all my career, and have seen the police throw their weight around (as well as meeting many excellent police officers). I'm old enough to remember some of the big miscarriages of justice like the Birmingham Six, and I have lived in countries where the police are frequently corrupt. But what happened at our Practice to entirely law-abiding victims of crime was not something I ever expected to see in the UK.

BatShite · 17/02/2020 15:36

Well my experience of the police over the years has been dire, so I would agree with this. I know some are good and care, not all police, etc. But

  • First experience. My mothers partner when she seperated from my dad was abusive. I came in from school when 15 and he was shouting in her face and threatening to 'teach her a lesson' (for what, who knows..). I called the police after getting my little brother and sister upstairs away from it all and telling them to lock their doors. Was told it would be 'about 20 mins' before anyone could come. I feared, honestly, he would have killed her by then. And yes, I know this was wrong also but I felt I had no choice. He hit her twice infront of me, she crumpled to the floor and this just kind of happened instinctively. I got a kitchen knife and basically held him against the wall with it until the police turned up...half an hour later. They told him to go home and not come to my mothers house again, and threatened me that they could lock me up for my actions and not to do it again, then threatened me with being arrested as I was really angry with the response and called them 'fucking useless bastards who won't' act til shes dead'. I didn't get arrested as I shut up for fear of arrest. That was it.

-Second experience. Same guy, stalking my mother for weeks. Police had no interst and said they could not act until he 'did something'. My mother pointed out he had already assaulted her, and they had seen the broken nose etc when they came and instead they threatened me for basically, keeping her safe! Kept stalking her, police still not interested. No action.

-Third experience. He turned up again, hit my mother multiple times. Police did turn up in minutes that time (possibly as they were afraid I wold actually stab the bastard this time). Asked him what was going on, he said domestic dispute, and they fucking left. Seriously. Rang again, came straight back, told him to go home. No action taken despite more bruises ad blood clearly visible.

-Fourth experience. Not my experience but along the same vein and I believe my mother when she tells me this as there is no reason for her actions (which I do agree were against the law also..) otherwise. He randomly turned up at a work party. Shouting, threatening, multiple witneses. Hit her, told her he was going to kill her, actually had a knife this time. Everyone apparently just looked shocked and noone intervened..so she ran, got in her car and drove home. He called the police immediately and told them she was driving when she had been drinking. They somehow managed to get to her before she got home and she was arrested. Not sure if mitigating circumstances would apply here, as she did drive over the limit but for fear of her life, and also just over the limit, not that that matters in reality. But..arrested, held for hours, then charged, loss of license, nothing done to him. AGAIN.

-Fifth experience, Same guy, again. Mother had moved on and not heard from him for a few months, was having a drink in the house with a male friend. He turned up, usual threats and hitting her, male friend overpowered him, possibly went overboard in violence but hoestly, it was well deserved I think. Finally, when the police appeared, they arrested male friend, but as the guy had hit him too, he was arrested! Finally! Once he hit a bloke.

Not sure what happened to him after that, purposely tried to forget him but male friend got a warning for violence as far as I remember, but we never heard from her abusive partner for years, so assume he did get locked up, though my mother was ever called to court oddly..

Experiences as an adult.

  • Got my own house at 17 as it was possible then where its not really now. Few months after I moved in, creepy guy from up the road starts turning up at my door saying vile things, managed to get my number, also called with vile things often. Wuold shout stuff to me in street, infront of many people. Reported this, was againt old, unless he does something we can do nothing. A lot of women in the street I found out had had 'experiences' with him. He finally assaulted me when I was coming home drunk from a party. I called police, was questioned about why I was drunk at 17, why I was wearing the clothes I had on, told me to get inside and lock door and they fucking left. Thats it. Didn't even bother speaking to him so obviously blamed me. No crime.

-Creepy guy gained confidence. Turned up at my door and tried to force his way in. I fought him, and yes might have been OTT in aggression as I did end up breaking his nose, but in all honesty, I was terrified and 'reasonable force' when someones breaking in to assault you is...hard to stick to, or even think of at the time! Long story short. I got a record for assault. He got nothing.

-Same guy again, trying to kick my door down when I wouldnt answer door! Eventually broke window to get in. Police..will be there asap, no time frame Hmm Had a few male frends there though who restrained him. He hit one of them and broke his jaw. Eventually police turned up, and did arrest him. Again, once a bloke was hurt. Its hard not to be..well skeptical about the police and their want to protect women.

Have had a few other incidents with the police over the years, but each and every one of them, action was only taken either when a man was hurt, or when a woman was actually put in hospital (as my friend, was, 10 times calling police, useless, finally he nearly killed her and action was taken)

Father in laws car was stolen also, police told him to send in cctv footage (had cctv due to other incidents, lived in a rough place), then he never heard anything more despite clear pictures of the guy, called up and was told case closed!

I have absolutely zero faith the police would ever help me if I needed it, based on experiences spanning 20 years. But I also know, if I ever insulted/offended a man on twitter, there is a large chance they would turn up and arrest me.

Bananabixfloof · 17/02/2020 16:34

@toothfairy73
Thanks, but the man is dead now.

RuffleCrow · 17/02/2020 16:41

I called the police to look for my missing 11 year old dd. One arrived after she'd reappeared. Lone male police officer tried to go into dd's bedroom, alone with her (she was curled up in bed) and close the door behind him to 'talk to her'. Luckily her mother is a badass who was having fucking none of it, but imagine how many vulnerable kids that man must deal with daily who don't have a competant adult to look out for them. Sad

I wasn't badass enough to report him though, for fear of repercussions.

Peapod29 · 17/02/2020 16:52

Mrsnoah2020 do you know I was thinking as I read the first part of your post ‘I bet the guy was a Freemason’. Unfortunately this has been my experience of the police also, although it was 20 years ago now and I’d hoped the force had really been cleaned up. The force I was involved with acted like complete thugs, and worked on the sides of the criminals who also happened to be masons. The corruption went right up through the CPS too. It was really quite shocking. I have never had any faith in the police again. Although I’m sure that the vast majority of officers are brilliant.

Oliversmumsarmy · 17/02/2020 17:13

Friend had a gang of men invade her home with weapons. Dialled 999 whilst running for a bedroom where she barricaded herself in.

The police wandered around several hours later.

They didn’t bother taking fingerprints or even one of the weapons that had been left behind.
They just gave her a crime number

Another has an injunction out on her ex.
Him and his Male family members were parked on her driveway and banging on the front door shouting at her.

She called the emergency number she was given. They came out 2 days later
Apparently it is one word against the other.

Her ex takes no notice of the injunction because despite breaking it multiple times he knows the police won’t do anything

stumbledin · 17/02/2020 17:17

This has been going on for some time now. I have heard so many stories of people who have done the investigating themselves, identified the culprit and no action taken. (if you google this you will come across so many examples)

I am sure cuts have had a part in this and the fact that they are now basically office based. This is from 3 years ago: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-41633205

I did hear another explanation that many local police think they can identify the main causes of crimes as being one particular family / network of friends. And it is easier to monitor them and get a higher conviction rate that endless paper work for "minor crimes".

But as we know this has now speard into more serious crimes being dropped.

And creates an atmosphere where people feel there is no point. I heard on one phone in programme that someone had been out shopping with family in local shopping centre and they were in a sports shop. A group of young men walked in and started taking things they wanted off the shelves etc., and staff just stood there. Apparently this sort of "invasion" stealing had become so common staff had been told not to intervene and that it was built into insurance costs etc.. And then customers just went back to shopping!

And from follow up calls it didn't seem to be that unusual.

Oliversmumsarmy · 17/02/2020 20:21

I think it was in New York that they started the 3 strikes and you are out. Automatic prison for quite a big sentence.

I really think we should bring in something like this.

I remember reading that in one area that most of the crimes were committed by a small handful of people.

Taking them off the street would actually mean freeing up police time.

BovaryX · 18/02/2020 07:11

It was New York which introduced the broken windows paradigm where relativity minor crimes; graffiti, vandalism; were met with a robust police response of zero tolerance. This had a positive impact upon crime figures overall and has been credited with transforming New York. The UK is running the antithesis of broken windows Can you imagine the outrage if cops in the US decided they would no longer investigate burglaries? The UK'S approach to crime is deeply dysfunctional and it has been for decades.

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MrsNoah2020 · 18/02/2020 07:26

I think it was in New York that they started the 3 strikes and you are out. Automatic prison for quite a big sentence. I really think we should bring in something like this

I suggest you read up on how it played out in the States. It's widely recognised as having been a disaster that led to the mass incarceration and lifelong exclusion from society of hundreds of thousands of young men who would otherwise probably have grown out of petty crimes like cannabis possession or shop-lifting. It's also phenomenally expensive.

This graph shows what happened to the US prison population when 3 strikes was introduced in the 80s.

Collapse of confidence in police
Lojoh · 18/02/2020 07:38

Yeah I think the broken window idea has been pretty thoroughly discredited now - it was fashionable in the 90s after Malcolm Gladwell's book but even he has since walked it back. The crime drop occurred in places that did and did not implement those strategies. I think the first scholarly work on this was in around 2001 and it just keeps coming.

Also can't help but note that the UK police are perhaps following this strategy. Their "broken window" is arguments on Twitter and that is why breastfeeding women are being thrown in cells and losing their jobs. And why 120,000 non crimes are being put on the police records of ordinary people.

BovaryX · 18/02/2020 07:48

I totally disagree. The broken windows thesis was implemented at a time when many parts of New York were exponentially violent. It was about transforming its physical appearance inter alia and that is why the subway was tackled. Zero tolerance for broken windows and graffiti challenged the public perception that cops had abandoned real estate to criminals. That required a visible police presence on the streets where crime was being committed. The cops in the UK and their zealous policing of Twitter whilst being barely visible on the street is the antithesis of this If the US cops casually announced they would no longer investigate home invasions? The public outcry would be audible from Mars. But then there is a concept of property rights in the US. The left wing have been peddling the BS mantra that criminals are victims and prison doesn't work. This is the upshot.

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MrsNoah2020 · 18/02/2020 08:05

The left wing have been peddling the BS mantra that criminals are victims and prison doesn't work

The police failing to act on crimes and incarceration are 2 different issues.

Prison doesn't work as a deterrent : it is an extremely expensive way of turning someone into a lifelong burden on society. It breaks social and familial ties, restricts future employment and leads to homelessness - all of which lead to reoffending, as ex-convicts have no other means of generating income or - in the 'best' case scenario, to ex-cons being dependent on benefits for life. Prison does work to keep the rest of society safe from dangerous individuals and should be reserved for those people, and for really persistent offenders for whom all other interventions have failed.

But none of that excuses police inaction.

BovaryX · 18/02/2020 08:07

Prison doesn't work as a deterrent:

Really? I suggest you apply that smug, baseless assertion in the places around the globe which have draconian sentences. And very little crime.

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Oliversmumsarmy · 18/02/2020 08:13

Prison might not work but for a time at least it keeps people off the streets.

BovaryX · 18/02/2020 08:17

The snippet below is from the Telegraph. This failure on crime, which should be in Conservative DNA, is an indictment of previous governments. If they don't challenge bankrupt, liberal tautologies on crime which have dominated policy for 23 years? They will lose their newly acquired voters.

^Burglars are ending up in court in just four per cent of cases, almost half the rate of just four years ago, Home Office data reveals.
More than eight in ten burglaries across England and Wales are closed without police identifying a suspect, with only 4.4 per cent of offences resulting in a charge or a summons in 2018/19.This is down from 7.6 per cent in 2015/16.The figures will add to growing concerns at the failure of police to investigate so-called low-level but high volume crimes following reductions in police officer numbers of 22,000 since 2012^

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BovaryX · 18/02/2020 08:21

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/02/16/public-alarmed-fewest-bobbies-beat-decade

half of Britons never see a "Bobby on the beat"

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