Why do transgender people change their names when they transition?

[BowermansNose]

I was just thinking about some of the inconsistencies in genderism ideology and I thought of one that hadn't struck me before (probably says more about me).

One of the gender arguments is that a woman can have a lady penis, and they don't have a man's body, they are women, and it's their body.

If this is all true, why can't Kevin be a woman's name and Sally be a boy's name? Why do we have male and female names at all, if male and female don't mean anything?

I agree, name changing is used as an opening gambit in the game of ValidateMe.

Names are only gendered by convention. Why has "India" or "Clover" become a female name? Why has "River" or "Harrison" become a boy's name?

YY to PP who mentioned Shirley Crabtree. Other examples:

Evelyn Waugh
Hillary Benn
Lionel Shriver
(An)Drew Barrymore
Michael Learned.

Why shouldn't any of the above people call the police and report a hate crime if they are misgendered? Or doesn't it count as hate if you are just ordinary and "c*s"?

What about non Western names? My daughter has a Hindi name that is used for both boys and girls. I have a Hindi name and am constantly addressed as "Mr" in correspondence. Will a transperson with a name unfamiliar to westerners claim - legally - that they are being misgendered and the subject of racism if some poor unsuspecting ordinary Joe gets their pronouns wrong? Or for that matter, why can't my daughter or I complain to the police? Here's a clue: we are not narcissistic attention seekers.

The trouble is, gendered names don't change what is in front of your eyes - I was surprised when an androgynous young woman I was speaking to introduced herself with a masculine name. My fleeting thought honestly was 'That's an unusual name for a girl'

When someone else was talking about this person and referred to her as 'he' the penny dropped. But this person is unmistakeably female and from getting to know this person I am now aware of many of the known triggers for GD.

Completely off topic, JillAmanda would that be of Perfect Pony fame? My favourite book series as a pony mad child!

Because some of them believe they are (internally), or should be the opposite sex, so ‘passing’ means being seen as they see themself.

But nobody ever sees you as you see yourself. You can try to present or behave in a certain way in the hope that people will, but they won't. I'm sure we're all fully aware of this from our own experience (or is it just me?)

There does seem to be a large part of transitioning which is tied up with 'how other people see/treat you'. Being dependent on this for a large part of your mental wellbeing is always going to lead to problems.

It would be much more healthy to take the attitude 'first accept yourself, then worry about other people'. But what we see here is people first trying to persuade other people that they're someone they're not, and hoping that happiness will follow.

But nobody ever sees you as you see yourself.

Exactly. This is a concept most people intuitively learn before reaching adulthood.

It would be much more healthy to take the attitude 'first accept yourself, then worry about other people'. But what we see here is people first trying to persuade other people that they're someone they're not, and hoping that happiness will follow.

YY ! I think that social media/Facebook thinking has everything to do with this movement. It's all about how other people see you and accept you, even if it's a total lie.

Imagine how I feel day in day out. Inside I'm the athletic, confident rather lovely 27-year-old natural blonde I used to be. It's just that people keep responding to the mousy 58-year-old, comfortably overweight woman in glasses that I've turned into. How dare they not realise that inside I'm still vibrant and lovely! Insisting people call me Amber or Evie or Meghan (or even Dan or Alfie) rather than my classic 1960s name isn't going to change anything.

Denying reality and insisting the rest of the world does the same or you'll call the police isn't just doomed to failure, it's going to totally fuck you up.

Other people who change their names:

Goths,(Facebook was a bit of a revelation after livejournal)
Re-enactors (ditto)
People who were abused or had crimes committed against them and don't want to be found.
People who hate the name they were given
People who marry and choose to merge a surname or take a family name.
Monks/nuns
People who choose a variation on their name because there are already 20000678543 others with the same name at work/school/etc.
Anyone who fancies changing their name by deed-poll
Anyone who gets stuck with a nick-name until no-one remembers their given name anymore.

But it's apparently only trans people who are wrong to want to do this.

I have a gender non-specific first name, the only person who ever used all of it was my emotionally abusive mother. It's still my legal name, and most people call me by my nick-name (a shortened, usually masculine version of my full name). I feel sick and anxious if I am repeatedly called by my "legal" name. And I'd think you were being a deliberate arse if you continued to do so after I asked you to stop.

Are you an arse?

Maybe this will lead to a change in association, an ungendering of more names? Quite a lot of traditionally Male names are now unisex or almost completely seen as feminine now.

In a way it's fine - it would be good if the unintended consequence was that there was less automatic prejudgment and discrimination based on name (and pronoun). But it's not good when the effect is to deceive (whether deliberately or not) the 'rohypnol' effect.

And I'd think you were being a deliberate arse if you continued to do so after I asked you to stop

I don't think anyone here is saying they wouldn't use the chosen name. The discussion is about trying to understand the reasons behind it and the effects (intended or otherwise) which may ensue.

Issues around the use of gendered names seems like a legitimate topic to discuss on a feminism board.

When did a Goth/ deed poll name-changer/ person who changed their name on marriage contact the police and ask to record a hate crime when they were misnamed? That's the difference.

I don't think you should be asking anyone if they are an arse when you have completely failed to understand the point of the thread.

Nobody is saying people should never be able to change their name.

The OP is asking why is a gendered name an important aspect of transgenderism in the context of that movement's assertion that sex is not binary and gender is a spectrum.

I don't think anyone here is saying they wouldn't use the chosen name. The discussion is about trying to understand the reasons behind it and the effects (intended or otherwise) which may ensue.

A given name comes with a lot of baggage.
Changing that name helps to shed that baggage.
As long as names are mostly sexed/gendered it should hardly come as a surprise that most trans people choose a name that matches the new marker on their driving licence/passport etc.
As most trans people want to blend in you surely don't think that it would be helpful to ditch your given name (and all the hurt that goes with it) and not take the opportunity to choose something more appropriate?

Changing your name, is changing your name. It doesn't matter why you're doing it.

Would you try to get someone sacked if they used your full name? Because dead-naming is regarded as a crime among those who subscribe to transgender ideology.

There's a difference between asking people to use a name because a previous name has painful connotations and telling people they will use a different name, even if that name is clearly mismatched with the appearance of that person, under pain of legal action/ Twitter threats/ FB pile-ons. The first is appealing to compassion and understanding, the second is behaving like a tyrant and denying the rights of the observer by compelling speech.

I realise this isn't what the OP was originally asking and rather than derail the thread further and this is my last post on the subject.

Would you try to get someone sacked if they used your full name? Because dead-naming is regarded as a crime among those who subscribe to transgender ideology.

If they continued to do it after I had (repeatedly) explained why they shouldn't I would assume they were doing it to bully me and pass it on to HR to deal with.

Bearing in mind that we have a "preferred name" option on new starter forms , I would expect HR to take the referral seriously.

Changing your name, is changing your name. It doesn't matter why you're doing it.

It can under some circumstances, and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise. There's a minority of people who shouldn't be able to disassociate themselves from their former name, whatever their reason for wishing to do so. Please note my bolding - I'm not saying such circumstances pertain particularly to trans people.

Because some of them believe they are (internally), or should be the opposite sex, so ‘passing’ means being seen as they see themself
Well i want to be seen as a cindy Crawford when she was young alike. But sadly I cant make people see that in my slightly flabby, grey haired, menopausal body, so how do I make people say it anyway?

If they continued to do it after I had (repeatedly) explained why they shouldn't I would assume they were doing it to bully me and pass it on to HR to deal with

So I keep getting mis gendered by a poster on here, what do you suggest?

The 'in' naming trend in Hollywood is to give girls boys names. I don't mean calling a girl Charlie rather than Charlotte, I mean calling a girl 'James'.

Personally I don't have a problem with this. It's just a step on from Charlie.

Re parents giving a second name I always felt for my parents when my brother changed his name. A name is a gift from your parents and it helps to shape your life whether you realise it or not (see freakonomics). It can say a lot about your background, your parents political outlook and your parents aspirations and hopes for you. You can also gravitate to things that echo your name. It's something that helps form your identity.

When my brother changed his name, I felt it wasn't just him changing his name but also a rejection of my parents. It was a rejection of his hertiage and things that meant a lot to my parents. It was outwardly saying that their contribution to his identity was null and void and needed to be destroyed.

So I can see why getting your parents to rename you might be appealing. But I also think this is about using power over parents too. The whole point of a name is highly connected to identity formation so asking parents to rename when you are an adult is fraught with pressure. These are parents who have already effectively been told they have 'got it wrong' so I can not imagine what the pressure is like to rename someone. This name will not reflect the time someone was born but the trends of the time they were renamed (you can see this in soaps where new characters, particularly ones in their twenties tend to have names which reflect the latest baby name trends not the trends of the time they were supposed to be born). It won't reflect their choice and innocent and idealistic hopes for their child as a blank canvas. It will ultimately be about what they think their child will like not about what they will like. In this sense it does very much reflect a changed power dynamic where the parents are no longer the authority nor respected.

Ultimately having see this play out, I think it really made me think name as a gift more than I ever felt before. It's a gift that should have that understanding of the love that went it choosing it and what it meant to the parents when they picked it. It's a reflection of their life and a connection to them.

I felt this particularly acutely when I had DS. When DH and I were choosing DS's name we felt a huge amount of pressure and responsibility to 'get it right'. It certainly wasn't just a name, it was a really personal gift. I feel now more than ever that people who change their name need to understand this and how it may cause pain to change a name. This also has a particular effect on siblings too as parents name siblings to have names that 'go together'. When you are growing up you get referred to as a singular entity a lot. For example where would Topsy be without Tim? Topsy and Esme kind of loses something...

I don't think people need to formally change their names to reclaim and assert their own identity. People can go by nicknames or middle names or the gendered opposite to their birth name, to maintain the importance of that gift.

But as I say I do feel that the whole point is precisely to put two fingers up and about power and control and that's why it's regarded as such an important stage in transition. It's a statement - both in action and potential shock value. It's a statement of intent and of new hopes and dreams being independent, separate and removed from that of their parents.

To view it as 'just a name' misses a huge amount.

I also see it as part of the 'trying to run away from yourself' paradox.

Changing your name doesn't actually change your background or your experiences. It doesn't change the baggage you have. It just is a way of pretending that you've done fundamental and now everything is different when in all other aspects the material reality is utterly the same.

Oh FFS, why was I deleted? I said nothing objectionable at all, and get the TRAs just can’t stop combing Feminism threads and squealing to the mods, can they?

Changing their name is the one thing in this whole business that makes any sense IMO. It's a new start, a new life in a way. Many of us have changed our surnames to mark a major life event such as getting married or being adopted. It is not uncommon to change first names, either, and to expect that change to be respected.

Names are personal. They belong to the person in a way that 3rd person pronouns do not.

Though asking your parents to rename you... that's validation, not identification.

Isn't it simply because names are gendered, and they want to adopt the gender which isn't associated with their actual sex?

I used to think this... until I recently heard an interview with a young transman whose birth name was Rowan... a totally unisex name, and they still changed it to something typically masculine. Then I realized that another transman I knew who was called Alex, changed their name to Alyx...

That's when I dawned on me that it's more about attention seeking and making sure everyone KNOWS you're a new person...

But nobody ever sees you as you see yourself.

No but we’re talking about sex which is a fundamental aspect and people generally see you as one or the other.

Transsexuals often want to be seen as the sex they identify as. The fact that some are more and some less successful at that doesn’t change the underlying motivation.