Why do transgender people change their names when they transition?

[BowermansNose]

I was just thinking about some of the inconsistencies in genderism ideology and I thought of one that hadn't struck me before (probably says more about me).

One of the gender arguments is that a woman can have a lady penis, and they don't have a man's body, they are women, and it's their body.

If this is all true, why can't Kevin be a woman's name and Sally be a boy's name? Why do we have male and female names at all, if male and female don't mean anything?

[Cwenthryth]

I didn't say it was treating me differently. You are the ones introducing the idea of being treated differently
Apologies, Kimiko I think we’re talking at cross purposes. Yes, I moved the conversation on a little and asked for the point of view of someone who believes in gender - that being a woman/man is an internal identity/feeling - on how one treats someone as a woman (or man), what is the difference supposed to be. It stemmed from the concept of trans people wanting to ‘be seen as’ ‘be treated as’ ‘be respected as’ their gender, and me not understanding how this is supposed to be achieved. I think we thought you were answering this, as you responded about not knowing what I meant by gender adherent and seeming skeptical that I am stumped by the ‘as a woman’ concept in a non-biological context.

This ‘as a woman’ is different from using new names - as has been pointed out there are many situations where people change names, and nowhere has anyone suggested that we don’t use people’s preferred names when addressing them, I don’t think.

[ACatWhoBinds]

I can only speak from my little bit of experience. I changed my name but both are stereotypically feminine names. The reason I changed it was because there were so many triggering memories linked to the other name and I wanted to separate myself from that person. In fact, I actually changed it before I realised I was non binary. A few trans people I know have also changed for a similar reason and haven't had masc or femme names but it's a deeply personal thing and I think reasons depend on the person and their identity

[KimikosDreamHouse]

But that's not treating you differently. It's a linguistic error

I didn't say it was treating me differently. You are the ones introducing the idea of being treated differently . The trans person presumably wants a name which like my name is a name applicable to one sex (or gender if you prefer) to be recognised as that sex or gender.

[ListeningQuietly]

Or maybe when they raise a point in a meeting everyone could pretend they didn't hear it. And if they insist on being listened to, we could label them as bossy and difficult.
Ah yes, the range of insults for uppity women that still exist in the workplace ....

[OldCrone]

I'm female- my real name is very obviously a female name but it is not an English name. It would matter to me if someone mistook it for a man's name and called me Mr Dream House.

But that's not treating you differently. It's a linguistic error. Is there any way that you think that people are treated differently because of their sex? The only ones I can think of are the sort of thing that isabelle mentioned that you dismissed.

Biology aside, how is being treated like a woman different from being treated like a man? And how does a man 'live as' a woman?

[ListeningQuietly]

Steve Shirley used that name for very obvious business reasons. It never meant she was questioning her own gender.

An acquaintance who is now female chose her new name as it was in the same place on the baby names list for her year of birth as her original male one had been.
Both her names suit her and she's never been snotty about people knowing the old one. She just does not react to it.

[Cwenthryth]

By gender adherent, I meant someone who believes in the ideology that gender is innate and must be recognised/acknowledged/respected above physical, biological sex classes. Your point about using people’s preferred names is strawman - that’s not what we’re discussing here.

How do I treat you as a woman? What do I do differently to how I would treat you as a man?

[isabellerossignol]

Oh please - what a tired old cliché.

In what way?

[ProstheticConscience]

My name can be spelt several ways, it's probably fairly even in how I've seen it used by people.
Because of this, my name is frequently misspelt by people; often in emails replying to an email I've sent which obviously has my name spelt correctly.

I find this very annoying and remind people that they've spelt it wrong. They still get it wrong.
Why do people do this? Probably not intentionally, it's most likely that they don't give a stuff about my feelings and spelling my name correctly.
Given my name is part of my identity, should I be complaining to HR, the police, or even the Twitter police about this?

Or should I carry on sighing, 🙄 and occasionally making similar "accidental" typos in their names to make a point? The last one is v.mature I know.

[KimikosDreamHouse]

In the workplace I suppose we could start be asking transwomen to bring everyone a coffee at the start of the meeting?

Oh please - what a tired old cliché.

[KimikosDreamHouse]

I don't know what a "gender adherent" is. I'm struggling however to see what is so difficult about giving someone the courtesy of using their preferred name.

Howdo I treat someone as a particular sex (or gender), in situations where physical biology is irrelevant? This genuinely stumps me

Does it genuinely stump you? I'm female- my real name is very obviously a female name but it is not an English name. It would matter to me if someone mistook it for a man's name and called me Mr Dream House. I'm a woman- I don't want to be mistaken for a man.

[isabellerossignol]

In the workplace I suppose we could start be asking transwomen to bring everyone a coffee at the start of the meeting? Or take the tea towels home from the communal kitchen at the weekend and stick them through the washing machine.

Or maybe when they raise a point in a meeting everyone could pretend they didn't hear it. And if they insist on being listened to, we could label them as bossy and difficult.

The thing is, I honestly get the impression that that wouldn't be welcome.

[OldCrone]

A question I’d like to ask any gender adherents on the thread: How do I treat someone as a particular sex (or gender), in situations where physical biology is irrelevant? This genuinely stumps me.

Good question. I'd also like an answer to that. And how someone can 'live as' the opposite sex (apart from the obvious biological stuff).

[Cwenthryth]

I always thought it was all part of wanting to be ‘seen as’ or ‘treated as’ the opposite sex, according to stereotypes. Which I think why it’s a little antithetical to feminist thinking - we are constantly striving for society to see and treat women equally, not differently, in almost all social situations. I don’t want colleagues responding to my emails differently because my name is Sally rather than Simon, that’s sexism. The only time I want to be “treated as a woman” is when my sexed body is directly relevant - such as medical issues, sport etc. It comes across that some trans people wish to be “treated as” the opposite sex in situations where sex isn’t actually relevant, to prop up their self-perception. Hence, gender ideology being regarded as deeply sexist(misogynistic) from a feminist perspective, relying on stereotypes as it does.

A question I’d like to ask any gender adherents on the thread: How do I treat someone as a particular sex (or gender), in situations where physical biology is irrelevant? This genuinely stumps me.

[Goosefoot]

I don't think there is always the same goal with name changing. In the dysphoric it seems to fit logically with the whole purpose of presenting as the opposite sex. IME such individuals don't tend to be big believers in gender having no reality.

And some people will change names because their parents gave them a joke name or something like that. (I met a girl named "Philistine" once, I thought she was a likely future name-changer.)

But in other cases it is part of trying to "create" oneself anew. When I was in middle school when we began at a new school in year 7, most of the girls in my class tried to change our names to new nicknames we had chosen. It didn't stick, but there was s real sense that we all wanted to be seen as a sort of new version of ourselves and a name would be a step on the way. (The boys all looked at us wide-eyed and uncomprehending as we told the teacher we wanted to be called by some new nickname.)

I think though that most people as they mature see their name as part of themselves in some way, even if it isn't what they would choose. And this seems analogous to me to other kinds of acceptance of things we don't like, be it our bodies, the way we sound when we talk, our inability to do chemistry or speak in front of a group, our lack of coolness, being boringly middle class, whatever. These things are ourselves, or genetics and our inheritance, and in most cases good mental health means coming to accept them.

[KimikosDreamHouse]

I take it you're too young to remember the 80s

Is this a reference to the mythical 1980s when according to certain posters on FWR everyone was so cool about men wearing makeup and dresses, it happened all the time and it was commonplace and unremarkable? Yes I am old enough to remember the 1980s - without the rose- tinted spectacles.

I find this a rather unpleasant thread. Setting aside, obviously, name changing to hide a criminal past what difference does it make to you (general you) that a person has changed their name?

It reads as if some of you are going out of your way to find something /anything on which to criticise trans people.

[MintySpud]

The tale of the transitioners calling themselves Diana en masse is one of the funniest things I've read in ages.

[JillAmanda]

@TheShoesa yes indeed I am JillAmanda, rider/owner of Plum 😁

[OldCrone]

No but we’re talking about sex which is a fundamental aspect and people generally see you as one or the other.

I take it you're too young to remember the 80s.

[Fieldofgreycorn]

I've never come across a transwoman called Pat or Joyce or Barbara

Barbara the taxi driver.

[Fieldofgreycorn]

But nobody ever sees you as you see yourself.

No but we’re talking about sex which is a fundamental aspect and people generally see you as one or the other.

Transsexuals often want to be seen as the sex they identify as. The fact that some are more and some less successful at that doesn’t change the underlying motivation.

[PhoenixBuchanan]

Isn't it simply because names are gendered, and they want to adopt the gender which isn't associated with their actual sex?

I used to think this... until I recently heard an interview with a young transman whose birth name was Rowan... a totally unisex name, and they still changed it to something typically masculine. Then I realized that another transman I knew who was called Alex, changed their name to Alyx...

That's when I dawned on me that it's more about attention seeking and making sure everyone KNOWS you're a new person...

[JellySlice]

Changing their name is the one thing in this whole business that makes any sense IMO. It's a new start, a new life in a way. Many of us have changed our surnames to mark a major life event such as getting married or being adopted. It is not uncommon to change first names, either, and to expect that change to be respected.

Names are personal. They belong to the person in a way that 3rd person pronouns do not.

Though asking your parents to rename you... that's validation, not identification.

[Haworthia]

Oh FFS, why was I deleted? I said nothing objectionable at all, and get the TRAs just can’t stop combing Feminism threads and squealing to the mods, can they?

[RedToothBrush]

I also see it as part of the 'trying to run away from yourself' paradox.

Changing your name doesn't actually change your background or your experiences. It doesn't change the baggage you have. It just is a way of pretending that you've done fundamental and now everything is different when in all other aspects the material reality is utterly the same.