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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Using the word "lady" for a woman, but not "gentleman" for a man

61 replies

Blackcountryman12 · 08/02/2020 21:52

I have always been interested in gender issues and feminism and one area I have studied is gender and language. As a male feminist, something I notice is the way people think the word "woman" sounds rude in some contexts, but "man" doesn't.

Because feminism is about equality between women and men, I often cringe when I hear "lady" in situations when "gentleman" isn't used. I'm not saying "gentleman" is never used, but when it is, it is only in certain contexts and often in its true sense ie. "he's a real gentleman". I have never liked this kind of unequal use.

I have heard "lady" and "gentleman" both used in polite contexts and I don't dislike that, but I have often also heard "lady" being used in ordinary conversation, when men are just "man", or "bloke"/chap" and increasingly "guy", which is perhaps the most commonly used Americanism that has come into British English.

I think the way "lady" has replaced "woman" in many situations is a good example of semantic derogation. My least favourite uses are where "lady" is used loosely as a substitute for woman, it can sound way too polite and twee in these contexts, as well as a little odd (you wouldn't call a man a gentleman), and I hate when a girl or young woman is condescendingly addressed as "young lady", I mean a boy or young man would just be called "young man" and not "young gentleman". What is is that people find rude about "woman"? Going back 100 years or more, people actually said "young woman", if you read texts from around that time.

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TheSandman · 11/02/2020 00:50

It's used a lot in the Central Belt.

ErrolTheDragon · 11/02/2020 01:28

How is it used there? Scottish dialect usage may not give it the same connotation as elsewhere i.e. a condescending, patronising reference to a wife which no sane man would use within earshot of any halfway self-respecting woman.

TheSandman · 11/02/2020 01:50

Just as a general term for a (usually older) woman. "See that wifie that works down the coop? Know what she telled me?"

doadeer · 11/02/2020 14:47

I think it's used to be complimentary much in the holding a door open, serving a woman first type ilk. It's an attempt to be polite isn't it. When I worked in monsoon it wasn't encouraged to say woman instead of lady as it was seen as being more formal. But i agree it's all a little silly

doadeer · 11/02/2020 14:49

But I think "young lady" has negative connotations. Like you're going to be told off for being a little madam! And young man doesn't have those connotations and young gentleman is never said!

Blackcountryman12 · 12/02/2020 09:29

You have made some interesting comments doadeer. I have never thought of "woman" as being formal, I just see it as the normal word for an adult female. I think "lady" and "gentleman" can be OK when used to refer to strangers or customers, but I agree with you about "young lady" and how "young gentleman" is never used. "Madam" is another word that has been degraded, as in "little madam" "Sir' remains completely respectful by comparison

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doadeer · 12/02/2020 09:50

No sorry I meant lady was seen as more formal than woman which wouldn't have sounded "special" enough

CatalogueUniverse · 13/02/2020 21:53

I think young lady comes with an expectation of performed femininity.
As young gentleman comes with an expectation of performed chivalry.

I’ve wrestled with this and now find myself shouting YOU MEAN WOMAN, not girl, not young lady.

Stick with it it gets easier Grin

The women at table 6
The young woman needs
The nice woman next door

Female can be a bit dehumanising unless referring to sex where it is correct.

TheBewildernessisWeetabix · 14/02/2020 18:55

I am fascinated by how we control what people think through language I found this interesting and think others in this discussion might also: anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap1702/1702wright/

Blackcountryman12 · 14/02/2020 19:57

No sorry I meant lady was seen as more formal than woman which wouldn't have sounded "special" enough

I see what you mean now, sorry about tghe misunderstanding

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Blackcountryman12 · 14/02/2020 19:58

Female can be a bit dehumanising unless referring to sex where it is correct.

I agree with this, and I feel the same about Male unless referring to sex

I am fascinated by how we control what people think through language I found this interesting and think others in this discussion might also: anthropoetics.ucla.edu/ap1702/1702wright/

Thanks for the link

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