Helen Joyce interviewed by Benjamin Boyce: Gender, Journalism and Justice

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

The brilliant Helen Joyce talks about free speech, the role of journalism, regulatory capture and the nature of gender identity ideology.

Can't wait to read her book.

This is an interesting and thought-provoking dialogue.

I like the argument for engaging in conversations with conservatives and people along the spectrum of attitudes.

And I was very struck by Helen J's arguments about coverage of women's lives/issues being split up along our episodic periods in our lives (motherhood, menopause etc.). And this means women are effectively a minority interest in media coverage because news stories focus on us in the category of an episode. She was excellent on this in her #WomensLiberation2020 workshop but I don't want to summarise that here as she's writing it up.

I adore that HJ says she wasn't radicalized by MN but she would have been if she'd been on here (at that point in her life).

As a general note - the subtitles on this are superb. I can't tell you what a difference this facility makes to my life.

Yes, I love how she sees it through mathematical analysis.

Yes!

I also liked the closing discussion of Jonathan Haidt, heterodoxy, and free speech. I would be delighted if those ideas were developed further.

I adore that HJ says she wasn't radicalized by MN but she would have been if she'd been on here (at that point in her life).

Yes I forgot to mention the shout out to MN in my description

Maya Forstater has positive comments about the interview in a Twitter thread and (understandably) mentions HJ's mathematical take:

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1226111658331865097

This is a great interview. Helen Joyce is a . I loved what she had to say about logical inconsistencies within gender identity ideology; the current state of journalism; the positive outcome of the rebirth of feminism.

It makes me sad that I felt more comfortable posting my reservations about Boyce on Spinster first rather than Mumsnet.

Anyway, short take:

Joyce is wonderful. Boyce still doesn't quite get it that it is a positive and even joyful thing in itself for women to assemble and speak about their unvarnished experiences, even if many of those have been negative experiences.

Helen Joyce articulates the issues brilliantly in this interview. I can't wait to read her book, hope it's coming out soon!

If you weren't at Helen Joyce's workshop at #WomensLiberation2020 then I think you'll also enjoy her write-up of it when it's ready.

I didn’t go to her workshop & cant wait for the write up.

This was a great interview thanks for posting.

That made a good start to my week. Thanks OP.

I am going to watch this although it's hard for me to find the opportunity to watch videos instead of reading an article!

Can someone give me a quick rundown on who Benjamin Boyce is?

He’s an American who was a mature student at Evergreen State College when students there... how to describe it? Revolted against professors and administrators, held them hostage and enforced a kind of struggle session focused on racial and other social justice issues. I am not an expert on those events at all.

Boyce has a YouTube channel with many videos about Evergreen, but he has also become interested in gender identity ideology over the past few years. He has interviewed many detransitioners (his interview with Ben/ GNCCentric is a must-watch but they’re all very good), some doctors and a few feminists.

He considers himself a centrist and is very anti- identity politics. I find him frustrating sometimes because he sometimes classes as “identity politics” what I would consider legitimate, specific grievances of the groups in question, whether women or racial minorities.

Despite that, he’s often a very good interviewer. He usually gives his subjects plenty of time to speak without interruption. I find him particularly sensitive with and respectful of the detransitioners.

I’ll come back later with a couple of links to his better videos.

Thanks! Oddly enough I'd just started watching the Evergreen YouTube vids - not got to the last part yet.

Thanks for the link - not watched it yet but I think Helen Joyce is great.

It's a really good interview- particularly pleased to see Helen mention trans widows as one of the groups whose voices are not considered by those seeking "diversity".

Just finished watching it in bits (toddlers, who'd have 'em), She has always been a clear and concise voice in this debate, and she smashes this perfectly!

Really enjoyed this, Helen is very clear and no nonsense which I like.

Although I have a lot of time for BB, I agree with pp that he doesn't always "get it" - however he has great guests and I've very much enjoyed many of his previous interviews , two with Jane Clare Jones in particular.

Very impressed with Helen Joyce she's such a clear articulate speaker but warm as well. Looking forward to her book.

Thanks for posting. Great interview. Everyone needs to watch this

Interview on "Coercion & Abuse in the Gender ID Community" with Ben, a bright and warm young Canadian woman recently re-identified with her sex. Morgan Page, facilitator of the "Overcoming the Cotton Ceiling" workshop in Toronto and currently affiliated with Stonewall in the UK, was the adult male running the trans group Ben attended as a young female teenager:

"What the Hormones Didn't Change," a recent interview with Watson, an extremely thoughtful Scottish female detransitioner:

"The Hormone Health Crisis" with Will Malone, an Idaho endocrinologist:

The first of those additional interviews, the one with GNC Ben, was educational and disturbing. It covers a wide range of issues and the thread that runs through it it the lack of safeguarding and the sense of sex castes (as Sheila Jeffreys terms it) than meant Ben and other trans boys were the lowest caste in their trans community. The highest caste were the substantially older trans women who constantly told them to check their privilege, to be quiet, and to listen when trans women spoke.

I haven't seen the others as yet. I'm not sure that saying, "I look forward to them" is appropriate but I'm certain that I'll learn something.

I really enjoyed the interviews with Ben, and some of the others, too. Not listened to the one with Helen yet(I listen to the podcast rather than watch on YouTube), but placemarking on this thread to remind me to come back to discuss when I have.

This was great. I sometimes think I'm just going to hear everything I already know, but there was a lot more food for thought here and the points I already 'know' are condensed down very sharply.

She’s so good!

I like her description of our position as ‘materialist feminism’.