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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Helen Joyce interviewed by Benjamin Boyce: Gender, Journalism and Justice

35 replies

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/02/2020 10:24

The brilliant Helen Joyce talks about free speech, the role of journalism, regulatory capture and the nature of gender identity ideology.

Can't wait to read her book.

OP posts:
ThePurported · 11/02/2020 09:59

The first of those additional interviews, the one with GNC Ben, was educational and disturbing. It covers a wide range of issues and the thread that runs through it it the lack of safeguarding and the sense of sex castes (as Sheila Jeffreys terms it) than meant Ben and other trans boys were the lowest caste in their trans community. The highest caste were the substantially older trans women who constantly told them to check their privilege, to be quiet, and to listen when trans women spoke.

Yes, very disturbing.
I had somehow missed the fact that Ben had come into contact with that Stonewall cotton ceiling person?!

Charlie Evans (of DetransAdNet) has also tweeted about her experience with an AGP.
mobile.twitter.com/charlie_sci/status/1226704893848825856

It enrages me that the establishment, including the BBC, always side with these men.

ThePurported · 11/02/2020 10:21

I agree with pp that Boyce can be a bit too dismissive, but the Evergreen connection explains a lot.
I think it's great that he does these long interviews, but if anyone who is new to this doesn't have the time to listen to the interview, Helen Joyce covers a lot of the issues in this excellent article

standpointmag.co.uk/issues/february-2020/speaking-up-for-female-eunuchs/

SophocIestheFox · 11/02/2020 18:22

Listened to the podcast on my way to work this morning and WOW!

She nailed it. I have to confess, I haven’t come across Helen Joyce before, and honestly feel that my life would have been a wee bit richer if I had! So wish I had managed to get to the conference to hear her live.

She’s clear, calm, authoritative, charming, factual, gets to the heart of each point she makes with a few words. Loved it.

I also now have “they’re sterilising gay kids” echoing round in my head.

Her book is going to be a cracker.

JessicaLangoustine · 12/02/2020 10:09

This is Boyce's best interview to date. Helen Joyce, you should be all over mainstream media! I'd love to see idiots like Victoria Derbyshire deal with your clear and logical reasoning and your deep concern for the effect this quasi religious movement is having on children. Can't wait for your book.

I thought the point Helen makes towards the end, about all these institutions like Stonewall and the ACLU trading on a good name, but actually doing the exact opposite of what they originally formed to do, was really important. So, Stonewall is actively homophobic in its current guise. This point really needs to be hammered home to the masses, because the uninitiated see women standing up to Stonewall and assume that "right" (compassion, tolerance, fair play etc) must be on the side of the former, and it's hard to argue against their history. Boyce says that these organisations are now "manned by people who are expending the accumulated authority and not generating anything more." I would include the BBC and the Guardian, both riding on the coat-tails of their respective impressive histories, but very much sullied in their current guises by their agenda pushing, shutting down of free, fair and equal speech to all sides, and their own nasty little cover-ups like Saville.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 12/02/2020 11:26

It’s really good. I will likely watch it again.

Let’s hope she gets the book written and then gets to do the entire circuit of press promotions.

She’s brilliant and exactly who we need to lead what I am now calling ‘operation stop sterilising gay kids’.

wellbehavedwomen · 12/02/2020 13:47

Helen Joyce is wonderful. Fiercely intelligent and takes no prisoners. Some of her writing around these issues is here, for anyone who's not read it, and would like to.

Thank you for the links - will watch them this evening.

Ben and other trans boys were the lowest caste in their trans community. The highest caste were the substantially older trans women who constantly told them to check their privilege, to be quiet, and to listen when trans women spoke.

That's interesting. The transman I know talks a lot about that transition equalling the assumption of male privilege, and that every transman needs to be mindful of and responsible about that. I just sit there and think - actually, the study I read a few years ago (and my own child's NHS senior clinical psych) says transboys are at the toxic intersection of genuine transphobia and misogyny, vulnerable to abuse from all sides, and far more vulnerable to rape and sexual assault than transwomen, and even non-transitioned women and girls. Because predatory males don't see them as men, and misogynists see them as threatening gender norms and are therefore triggered. And yet adherence to gender ideology means, of course, that middle aged males get to tell these young females to shut up, sit at their feet, and listen to them hold forth, because feminism! Privilege! Oppression!

Yes indeed, these females retain the right to remain silent post their 'transition'. What a brave new world.

Mossyrock · 12/02/2020 14:30

Wow, Helen Joyce is amazing in that interview. I hadn't heard of her before and am looking forward to catching up.

ThinEndoftheWedge · 12/02/2020 14:38

Not sure if posted here yet - but this might be the article Helen is referring too - women as supporting actors in their own world to transwomen

*At nearly 6ft she stands out among her team-mates, and club captain Jessica Minty-Madley recounts a time she folded an opponent "like a deckchair".

"I do feel guilty, but what can you do?" she says. "I don't go out to hurt anybody. I just want to play rugby."

He can't resist a joke, though, adding: "She's going to be a good, good player for the next few years, as long as we can stop her injuring players in training*

Heartwarming tale of inclusivity with three mentions/jokes of injuries/potential causes of harm to women in just one article.

Welsh RFU - supposedly committed to safety and fairness

Who wants their daughters to play rugby??!

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/rugby-union/49298550?__twitter_impression=true

Ameanstreakamilewide · 13/02/2020 14:57

Wow! Helen's credentials made me swoon a bit!

She's excellent.

popehilarious · 21/02/2020 23:21

Just bumping this in light of some of the Moral Maze 'definitions' as something Helen Joyce said has stayed with me. [I am greatly paraphrasing here!]:The reason people don't often question "definitions" such as "a woman is anyone who feels like a woman" or point out the glaring circularity is because - we all know instinctively what a woman is, so we have that external frame of reference.

"A woman is anyone who feels like a woman" etc would be more obviously seen as nonsense if 'what a woman is' was genuinely unclear.

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