Pronouns in my email signature

[GinTonic]

I've been asked to state my personal pronouns in my work email signature. Grateful for any advice on how to deal with this? It's being presented as optional but I feel it's discriminatory as it's putting me under pressure to reveal my personal views on subjects which up to now I have not shared in the workplace. Thanks all.

I have a name like that. The difference is, I don't start logging hate crimes and whining about literal violence if I get called "Christine". Or if someone uses "Sir" when they see "Chris".

I once worked with a lovely chap, whose "official name" was "FirstName" Ali. When he first introduced himself to me it was as "Ali", and for 2 years that's how we got on. Then a new person was employed who insisted on using Alis "FirstName". It confused everyone in the business and our clients. Quite aside from the etiquette of ignoring what Ali had explicitly asked to be called, I did wonder if there was some nasty racist undertone going on. If the new employee hadn't managed to get themselves dismissed before probation was up, I might have asked.

I also worked with a chap who refused to answer to "Dave". It was "David" or nothing. Even his directory entry in the email system was DAVID which stood out from everyone elses Normal Name.

I think you should start a new thread for that FOI stuff Lordfrontpaw, it might get lost in here.

In related news, I came across this in the introduction to a book published in 1983 no less...

from The Writer:

There’s no singular pronoun in English that covers both sexes. So traditionally people have gone for ‘he’ or ‘his’ when they didn’t know if they were referring to a Larry or a Lucy – because we’ve always been a bit sexist like that. But singular ‘they’ has actually been around for a very long time: you can find it in Chaucer, Shakespeare and even the US Declaration of Independence. And it’s the 21st century now, so there’s no excuse for that kind of nonsense.

I have a load of journalism style guides and English usage books at home. Must have a review...

I have a vague memory of Clive Anderson on QI mentioning that in law the singular is generally accepted to include the plural, and the masculine to include the feminine ... although it might have been better put.

I wonder how the French or Italians deal with these issues, since they have to have their adjectives agree in gender with the nouns ?

Or maybe German is better, since it has a neuter ?

I much prefer 'they' as a neutral pronoun for an unknown or generic person than he/him/his which reinforces the male as default, woman as invisible or 'second sex'. This type of usage of 'they' has existed for centuries, including being used by Shakespeare, it's a sensible adaptation to the lack of a singular neutral personal pronoun. Rejection of this form is driven either by excessive pedantry or by the recent appropriation by 'nonbinaries' to signify their personal neutrality.

Sorry if I sound a bit ignorant, but what does such an email signature look like? Is it literally Firstname Lastname, position, company, my preferred pronouns are: x/y/z? I’ve never seen one and am intrigued. Please could someone post an example, with actual names redacted as I really just can’t imagine it?

When you reply to such an email you only use you/your surely?

I came across my first one recently. Here's an anonymised version:

[firstname [lastname]
[job title]
Pronouns: she/her
[company address]
[company address]
[company address]
[Direct line]
[Mobile]

I guess the pronoun issue would come up if you needed to talk about the person to someone else? e.g. 'Alex has been briefed and will send her/his/their findings to the group asap'. ?

Lordfrontpaw, is there even such a thing as a non trans women? asking for a friend. What you shared deserves its own thread.

All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe

"If people had their preferred pronouns on their email sign-offs there'd be no pressure or anxiety, and no faux pas, because you'd know how to refer to them."

What an interesting use of passive voice in the sentence above in the use of the words "there'd be no pressure or anxiety, and no faux pax." This sentence is so manipulative. First, it starts with the people who have their preferred pronouns on their emails. Then it moves on to the presumption that other people feel "pressure and anxiety" over about preferred pronouns, which is not in evidence. It presumes that strangers are highly concerned about preferred pronouns and worry about them as a faux pas. The last part is telling, too--"you'd know how to refer to them." This reflects an anxiety by the person being spoken about that may not be shared by the speaker. While most people tend to be reasonably courteous, they aren't generally that exercised about other people in the course of a day. if they just go about the course of their business. But they WILL find it annoying if people try to represent themselves as something that seems pretentious, odd, overly precious, or at odds with reality, especially if that person uses it as a cudgel. This is a solution to a problem that nobody cares about solving. It's like inviting people over to paint your kitchen so they can relieve themselves of the anxiety and pain of knowing it's painted avocado green.

It's like inviting people over to paint your kitchen so they can relieve themselves of the anxiety and pain of knowing it's painted avocado green.

The two situations are in no way comparable. Absolutely nobody should have an avocado green kitchen. They would be doing you a major favour in painting it a different colour. I'm still living with the trauma of the avocado green bathroom suite in the first house I bought. It was years before I could afford to replace it.

I’m going to start adding my star sign (astrology and Chinese star sign) to my emails now.

🐟 🐓

By giving your pronouns, you are instructing others how to refer to you in the third person (ie when you’re not there) - many of us consider this to be compelled speech and object to the concept itself. I don’t believe it is my place to instruct you on what pronouns to use about me

Exactly this. Who am I to tell YOU how to refer to ME?

You can refer to me how the hell you like. That should be your prerogative. And it should be mine to like/dislike* your choice of descriptor.

• delete as appropriate

It's going to end up like a tedious "list" from an inane tweenage diary aimed at self-absorbed girls.

Name: Spud
Pronoun: she
Fave George Ezra song: ...

Durgasarrow, I might nominate that post for Pseud's Corner.

My use of passive voice is 'interesting' and the sentence 'so manipulative'? . I'm making a 'presumption' about everyone? (I wasn't). 'It presumes that strangers are highly concerned about preferred pronouns and worry about them as a faux pas'. Well, some people do (I speak for myself; and I think it's fair enough to assume some other people – NOT everyone – feel like this too.)

The last part 'reflects an anxiety by the person being spoken about that may not be shared by the speaker.' But also it may.

I think I give up on this thread. I don't see this as a huge deal, as some posters are so keen to try to read into my comments, just as a way of avoiding social awkwardness – and, key point, as I've said already, an OPTION for people who would like to avoid this social awkwardness, not something I think needs to be in any way enforced.

just as a way of avoiding social awkwardness

Unfortunately, all the research regarding unconscious bias and its impact on women's careers suggests "avoiding social awkwardness" in this way is likely to negatively impact women's career progression. I'm not willing to accept that. Women have fought long and hard to achieve some level of equality. Why would we throw that away?

key point, as I've said already, an OPTION for people

And what has been repeatedly mentioned is these "options" usually come with a clear "you're either with us or you're against us" subtext.

I can't make you call me anything. And no normal person would try and do so by using this tactic.

People don't respond well to implied threats and compulsions.

Yeah Like
NoSc, ThoughEng (Hons)
Senior Executive, WokeAF Division
Pronouns: 🤯/🤮/💩
[email protected]
+0123456789

[Obligatory "inspiring"/cringeworthy Quote:] "Go ahead and lower your miserable diversity stats even further by firing a female senior exec. for failing to be sufficiently enthusiastic about your diversity propaganda, I dare you!" - Yeah Like, lone female senior executive in the entire division

...

That's right, Intermittant Perps. I got shif things to do. I don't spend my day huddling in a corner in a panic spiral worrying what exotic pronouns Kyle in Marketing wants to be called in they's absence. Maybe Kyle can save the pronoun nonsense for gatherings where careers aren't at stake and not force strangers to bow the knee to their cult.

That's shit to do BTW

Lordfrontpaw--if anyone disrespects your Gemini identity, they'll be hearing about it from HR, I'm sure. I'll be adding my Myer-Briggs.

Lordfrontpaw--if anyone disrespects your Gemini identity, they'll be hearing about it from HR, I'm sure. I'll be adding my Myer-Briggs.

Yours sincerely
Lord Paw
Likes: Pina colada and getting caught in the rain
Dislikes: Yoga and people with half a brain

I don't see this as a huge deal, as some posters are so keen to try to read into my comments, just as a way of avoiding social awkwardness – and, key point, as I've said already, an OPTION for people who would like to avoid this social awkwardness, not something I think needs to be in any way enforced.

Most of us don't feel this social awkwardness. Sometimes we don't know the sex of someone we're communicating with by email. Who cares?