Called a ‘girl’ at work...

[Annoyed94]

NC as I did talk about it at work...

Will start off by saying that I’m a young female working in a semi senior technical role for a large organisation, wouldn’t be described at the “typical” type of person expected to work in this type of role.

Been involved on a project at work all via Skype type meetings with an external company and there have been absolutely no issues.

Recently attended a presentation for the above project and introduced myself to the two leads from the external company and was met with surprise and slight shock that I was the person they had been talking with via Skype.

Now to today... a meeting was scheduled via Skype so I dialled in with my microphone on mute so it wasn’t completely obviously that I had joined. Just as I joined the meeting I overheard the following sentence... ‘is the girl from xx department joining’. I then unmuted and joined, meeting carried on as usual.

When it had ended I realised how angry I was about being referred to as a girl! They clearly know my name, and i find it so so derogatory to be called a girl instead of a woman when I’m 26 years old, know my job and am the department lead on this for that very reason. I at least deserve the respect of a name!

I don’t know why I’m posting really I am just so angry!

@AlCalavicci you’re purposefully being ridiculous. You can just use your ’Good afternoon’ and omit the six names after.

About two weeks ago aI sent a email out to 9 men , the fact that it was all men on the email was pure chance , I addressed my email asGood afternoon gents , as discussed . . . . .
I got a very quick response that they were not a set of toilets ( no mention of the subject I had emailed them on ) so for the last two weeks I have carefully sent emails addressed ( at least 5 or 6 a day)
Good afternoon , Bob , Fred, Paul, Bill, David, Joe, Peter, Steve, Tony

"Gents" is awful. You would not say that to their faces so why put it in an e-mail? I have used "Gentlemen" occasionally or more usually"all"

You are being ridiculous listing all the names, "Dear All" /"Good afternoon All" is standard usage.

Op, you are not being ridiculous

Small things matter, everyday sexism matters. You can care about bigger things and still be bothered by this. I have heard speeches by Female CEOs who point out that this matters and the importance of challenging the small as well as the big and how they use their platform to change language in their organisations because they e had years of dealing with this kind of thing.

Is it a coincidence that AlCalavicci got the strongest response to her email? Responses here from women are divided between those who either don’t mind at all or silently seethe when called a ‘girl’ at work but these men immediately made it clear that they didn’t like gents. It’s women who are usually told they can’t take light hearted remarks or banter but clearly not. I thought it was quite funny to use all the names since then.

Other posters have pointed that it’s not just about the word but the motives behind it. SallySun123 had some good advice about being prepared not to be derailed by everyday sexism. Now you have heard one person call you ‘girl’, Annoyed94, then you know you should listen carefully to see if it was a slip of the tongue or if that person might undermine or devalue your contribution.

We used to say "lads" and "lasses" at work more than anything, but the younger women would have a "girls night out". Managers (of both sexes) used to refer to the young women in the typing pool as girls and the older women in the comptometer office as ladies.
Is it now unacceptable to refer to women as "young ladies" or "ladies"?

You are being ridiculous listing all the names, "Dear All" /"Good afternoon All" is standard usage.

Dear colleagues is standard in my workplace. A less formal option used is Hi folks. Which is used depends on the formality of the email/subject/ relationship with the recipients.

I would say “girls night out” or meeting up with the girls, or my daughter is only a girl, it’s short hand in those circumstances for fun. ( maybe that’s another thread entirely.) However I can vividly remember being absolutely furious at being referred to as a girl in a work environment aged 26. I mean I was livid. Someone had said in my ear shot that - they had “a girl here who could do it”- completely incandescent. I wasn’t to be regarded as a girl. I was a highly qualified woman with the right experience and ability in my field. Not a girl who could do it.

It wouldn't bother me personally but you should raise it if you didn't feel comfortable with it.

I hate to be referred to as girl in the office , I don’t like to be referred to as ladies either. But to be honest in my place of work these terms are frowned upon

The chairman of the firm I worked for in my late 20s used to refer to me as “my dear”. People said he was sexist. He was very old fashioned - sure - but actually a big supporter of women being promoted, allowing flexible working for women coming back from maternity leave etc. So I judged him on what he did rather than his use of a rather passé phrase when trying to be friendly/cordial to a young woman who was probably younger than his daughter.

I simply can't believe the number of women who seem to think it's okay or really minor to be called a girl at work. It's infantilising and I certainly can't think of any instance in a professional environment where people talk about "the new boy joining the team" when the boy would be 26.

It’s fine that some posters don’t find this an issue and aren’t offended by it, that’s great. But many of us including the OP are and it has made her feel uncomfortable at work.

I once responded to a senior male colleague referring to me as ‘girl’ by saying “actually, Tom, I began menstruating at 14 and haven’t been a girl for a long time” (the slight TMI was ok in context, and didn’t make him feel any more uncomfortable than he made me feel) and he’s minded himself a lot better around female staff since.
It’s all about context, and acceptability to the person you’re addressing. Like two friends might call each other ‘bitch’ as an affectionate in-joke, but if my manager called me that then it would clearly not be acceptable. I don’t object to my friend inviting me over for a ‘girl’s night’ although I don’t use the term myself, she likes it and tbf we do mostly act like 13 year olds raiding their parents liquor cabinet at a sleepover but my manager calling me a girl? No thanks. Invites too much unconscious bias.

OP in your position, depending on your level of comfort, I’d either drop an email directly to the colleague, explaining that you heard him refer to you as girl and you don’t find it an acceptable term to refer to a female colleague in the workplace, could he please refrain in future, and cc in your HR. Or, go via HR with same if you’d prefer. Not nastily or accusing of anything, don’t have to go into detail about why it is inappropriate in the first instance, just, this happened, it made me feel uncomfortable, please don’t repeat. Good luck!

Wow @Cwenthryth - I think you may well have made your colleague feel more uncomfortable than he made you by saying that

About two weeks ago aI sent a email out to 9 men , the fact that it was all men on the email was pure chance , I addressed my email as
Good afternoon gents , as discussed . . . . .
I got a very quick response that they were not a set of toilets ( no mention of the subject I had emailed them on ) so for the last two weeks I have carefully sent emails addressed ( at least 5 or 6 a day)
Good afternoon , Bob , Fred, Paul, Bill, David, Joe, Peter, Steve, Tony

How petty of you, when you could have just said "good afternoon"

I'd never say gents, either. Because I've almost never (if at all) heard it used outside of the toilet context. So you made an error, and when pulled up on it, were ridiculously petty. You might have cause to regret that.

I don’t find it offensive at all - takes years off me!
And I have been known to ask “where are the boys?” When my male colleagues can’t be found.
When referring to a larger group of personnel, pretty much everyone says “guys and girls” as in “ what time do the guys and girls finish up today?’

Feel for you OP. I was "that girl in IT" for many years. I still get group emails addressed to "Gents" 20 years later (only woman in team). My management are trying to stop people doing it to be fair. I did habe to tell them to stand dwon when they were panicking about "Hi Guys" as, for me, that fine for a mixed sex group and is unisex.

I think the man kicking off about the group being referred to as 'gents' made himself look pathetic and snarky for no good reason. 'Gents' is just an abbreviation of gentleman - it's not a word in itself that solely refers to pub loos. He clearly isn't a gentleman though, so I would have been very tempted to childishly send the next email addressed 'Dear gentlemen and Bob'.

I can see why the OP was annoyed by 'girl' as it seems their attitude and respect levels have altered since discovering she is a young woman. It's could equally be a subtle put down or just an informal way of speaking and therefore difficult to address without sounding petty.
I'd probably leave it on this occasion but be all over any disrespect in how they actually work with you. Keep all communication very professional and in writing as much as possible.

Emails I send to all male groups (assuming I know them quite well) I usually start with “morning/afternoon chaps”.

Because of the work I do I am often the only woman in a group of email addresses. I love that these emails begin “sirs and ma’am”

I can see why the OP was annoyed by 'girl' as it seems their attitude and respect levels have altered since discovering she is a young woman

This sums it up perfectly. I’m more than qualified for my role and don’t think attitudes should change based on appearance or age

annoyed94 Yes, bloody hate being referred to as "the girls" when I'm 50, at least 20 years older than the woman calling me that, and all the other departments at work were referred to by her by their departmental names and our team referred to as "the girls". Infuriating, I complained. It stopped. Go for it.

I might be very slightly miffed but not offended. I know my Mil regards all women of her generation as "girls" and they are mostly in their 80s. I agree it's bit different coming from guys but not necessarily sexist.

I once received a group email addressing the ‘Gentlemen’ in the first line, followed my a project update. I was not the only female in the CC list. I did need to respond as my team were working on this project (I’m a manager) , so addressed the group as ‘Ladies’
It made me chuckle

@Wearywithteens - I’m afraid I’m guilty of this...because I’m middle aged

Age isn't really a factor. Presumably you know that all the employees in your workplace are over 18 and are therefore adults? That makes the female ones women, not girls. Good to see you taking it on board though.

I'm mid-50's and would never refer to a colleague as a boy or girl. I think it's disrespectful in a professional setting.

If someone does this and you'd prefer they not, mention it, in person, don't send an email or copy HR! At least not unless you think they were being a jerk on purpose. Probably this guy just spoke the way he speaks in everyday speech without thinking much about it. Putting it in writing and copying HR puts it at a different level entirely.

Pretty much everyone deserves to have the chance to be told on a one to one basis about something they've inadvertently said, rather than being pointed out to HR - and management - as a problem person.