Called a ‘girl’ at work...

[Annoyed94]

NC as I did talk about it at work...

Will start off by saying that I’m a young female working in a semi senior technical role for a large organisation, wouldn’t be described at the “typical” type of person expected to work in this type of role.

Been involved on a project at work all via Skype type meetings with an external company and there have been absolutely no issues.

Recently attended a presentation for the above project and introduced myself to the two leads from the external company and was met with surprise and slight shock that I was the person they had been talking with via Skype.

Now to today... a meeting was scheduled via Skype so I dialled in with my microphone on mute so it wasn’t completely obviously that I had joined. Just as I joined the meeting I overheard the following sentence... ‘is the girl from xx department joining’. I then unmuted and joined, meeting carried on as usual.

When it had ended I realised how angry I was about being referred to as a girl! They clearly know my name, and i find it so so derogatory to be called a girl instead of a woman when I’m 26 years old, know my job and am the department lead on this for that very reason. I at least deserve the respect of a name!

I don’t know why I’m posting really I am just so angry!

But I’m not talking about going out with the girls or a lads holiday am I? I’m talking about in terms of a professional setting which are not comparable.

If you’re talking about yourself and your friends then of course it isn’t offensive

If you’re referring to another colleague in what should be a professional meeting then it’s not appropriate no. Would you refer to your manager as a boy/girl? I’m guessing not as it would be seen as disrespectful, why is it any different to refer to me in the same way?

I think that the equivalent of girl in that context was not boy, so much as guy. And "is that guy from dept x coming" is not so odd. In fact it's pretty usual even in a professional office.

I've had this discussion a lot, and what inevitably comes out is that many many people, both men and women, use those terms at work regularly, and don't mind them. A lot of variation too depending on the work sector and the backgrounds of the individual speaker in terms of things like region and class. Also the type of work which intersects somewhat with class.

So while it's not wrong to dislike it, we're all entitled to our personal opinion, I think it's inaccurate to assume the motives of those speaking that way are based on lack of respect of a particular individual or women in general. There are times when that is the motive and it can be quite clear in some contexts, but this doesn't strike me as one of them.

Are you a manager?

Jeez
Guys and girls. It's just a casual term.

I call myself a girl. I'm 47 and very senior at work. So does the CEO. Who is older than me even.

What is your explanation of the pa and office manager in my office being referred to as 'the girls' by lots of men eg have you booked your flight? No, I'll get the girls to do it... While women in other roles are given names.

I would not react well, as someone aged 46 and in a reasonable job, to anyone saying something like, is that girl coming to the meeting.

It would be fucking weird tbh!

'm 36, in a senior role for a company I have worked at for several years. While talking to one of the directors the other week he said 'you are a clever girl aren't you'. It felt very patronising!

^

Friggin Nora.

Are you a manager?
^

Yes. And she had the haircut too.

In my line of work, I have been called 'some bird', a 'bitch' and of course the C word.

Girl is the least offensive term I could probably be called.

I see people use it as the equivalent of "guy" for a female person,

That. I called my team 'the girls'. They were 40-50 years old. They referred to each other as girls/the girls.
Unlike males, we don't have a handy term between girl and woman. Men have lads and guys to fill the gap between boy and man.

So context is key. I'd often say 'the girl from...' as well. My friend works for a company in the City where the two owners are referred to as 'the boys'.

Demeaning behaviour generally has more to it than just being referred to in your absence as 'the girl from...'. Being called a clever girl to your face, or a pretty girl, or 'just a girl' is another matter entirely.

That's a pretty low bar tbh.

OP I get you,

It’s disrespectful. They weren’t calling you that before they saw you.

At my last job when I went out on site I was introduced to clients as anything from ‘one of the admin girls’ to ‘this is Bat’ she is responsible for ‘y’. You can guess which one I felt was more reasonable

Notably the people who gave me the ‘one of the admin girls’ treatment did not give that same type of treatment to the one guy who actually did work on the admin team (I didn’t, had a more senior, more responsible role).

We always say the girls at work

I have a female colleague who calls us ladies ironically and it is fine but I think there is a difference between colleagues referring to themselves as girls informally and referring to a person from another company that you don’t really know. By now, it’s not unreasonable to have expected them to have learned your name.

I’d be annoyed too Annoyed94 (but am now too old to be called a girl at work).

I work in a heavily male profession. I’ve been called “gents” via email copied in with other male recipients. People have addressed me by the wrong name in meetings in front of clients on more than one occasion. I’ve not been extended a hand shake while other male colleagues are...These are the minor incidents and the list goes on.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t be upset or that it’s OK but you really need to save your energy for the bigger battles. Be prepared. I was de-railed so often in the middle of an important meeting by everyday sexism that I used to think ahead to possible incidents and plan my reaction. That way you can be prepared and keep your cool.

I was in a leaders meeting at school with one man ( the executive Head) and six women. We were discussing some tricky scenarios and how to deal with them. One of his suggestions was that we should all 'man up' rather than letting our emotions get in the way.
I was very polite when I immediately asked him not to use such sexist terms, none of us wished to be men neither did we wish to ignore emotions when dealing with people's lives. He asked me to explain what I meant, which I did, and he apologised to all of us.

And actually I'm bloody hopeless at remembering names, so I would probably have said 'is what's her name in accounts joining us again!'

Ruby2020
You are spot on there are more important things.

That is one of the many small ways they "other" us.
I hope you know who did it, because they will likely undermine you in other ways as well.

About two weeks ago aI sent a email out to 9 men , the fact that it was all men on the email was pure chance , I addressed my email as
Good afternoon gents , as discussed . . . . .
I got a very quick response that they were not a set of toilets ( no mention of the subject I had emailed them on ) so for the last two weeks I have carefully sent emails addressed ( at least 5 or 6 a day)
Good afternoon , Bob , Fred, Paul, Bill, David, Joe, Peter, Steve, Tony .

That's a pretty low bar tbh.

What's a low bar? That meaning sometimes depends on context?

I'd mention it and have done, just, "I'm over 18, I'm a woman, not a girl," and moved on. I have also responded to mails starting, "gents," to point out we are not all gents. I complained about signs saying, "beware, men working behind doors." Al these things are minor, but they add up, and it's important for them to remember that women can also do these jobs, and most of my close colleagues do now think, "Emma will have something to say about that," and sometimes modify what they say, or just tell me after, "you should have been in that meeting with X when he said..." The next stage is for them to challenge these things in meetings not just report back to me, but I can't achieve miracles...

It does count. I challenge it every time. I challenge the bigger stuff, too. It's exhausting. But it's making a small difference, and maybe it will make it a little easier for the women coming after me.

Good afternoon gents , as discussed . . . . .
I got a very quick response that they were not a set of toilets ( no mention of the subject I had emailed them on ) so for the last two weeks I have carefully sent emails addressed ( at least 5 or 6 a day)
Good afternoon , Bob , Fred, Paul, Bill, David, Joe, Peter, Steve, Tony

You could just say, "Hi everyone," which includes everyone and also works if they're in different timezones.

The low bar was in response to pp who said they'd rather be called girl than bitch or cunt.

I got called a girl at work in my late twenties and was fine with it. I'm 43 now and refer to other women of varying ages as girls. I don't think it's offensive at all

I think you’re being petty

I do understand that there are bigger issues to be worked up about, but why does that mean I can’t be annoyed about this too?

Like I’ve said previously it’s the context of the situation. If it was general office chat then I wouldn’t be bothered, but when there are other more appropriate ways to refer to another person who is your equal, that don’t come across as demeaning or as if I’m a child then why not just use them?

So for the people who think it’s petty or wouldn’t be bothered.. if you were a part of a meeting and only you, none of the other people, were referred to as a girl instead of your name or woman like every other colleague in the meeting you’d be fine with it?