Rebecca Long Bailey: No debate, self id should be made law

[Clesna]

with Michael Walker, who I really rate, btw -- clearly miles ahead of the others at Novara and always worth listening to.

I am, ridiculously, saddened by this.

Sorry, it seems to have stripped the timestamp

Disappointed but not remotely surprised. She doesn’t really believe it of course. If Labour had said we want a female leader so only women can stand and she then lost out to a self ID pip bunce type she’d know damn well they were not a woman.

Labour are lost in the wilderness, I won’t be voting for them anytime soon and I’ve voted for them all my life

There is really no point getting exercised by this. Labour will never win a general election under her leadership. In fact, in general, the party shows very sign of comprehending why it lost in December, so it is destined to carry on making the same mistakes and staying away from power for the foreseeable future.

The continuity candidate, for all your never winning a general election again needs!

They don’t want real power to govern and having to make hard decisions, much easier life to be student protester types in opposition, virtue signalling and standing up for as many victims as they can find. That’s why They are holding onto identity politics, they would lack purpose otherwise.

Labour has made its position very very clear for a long time now, this shouldn't be news or shocking to anyone at all.

So another wannabe female leader who can't tell you or - even worse - is scared to say what a woman is?

That is so going to help women.

But as others have said, not a surprise and it doesn't really matter. as none of them will ever be Prime Minister

It's still shocking to see a prospective Labour Party leader say that there should be self-id, no debate and absolutely no arguments put forward at all.

It's just not how politics works "votes for women, no debate" "minimum wage, no debate"... the whole point of Parliament is to debate all new policies.

^^ What testing said.

I'm not shocked but I am saddened. I had thought perhaps we had made some progress towards women being allowed to put forward their position, at least. 'No debate' absolutely was the orthodoxy 2 years ago, but I had seen some movement on that within the left wing.

It's the thought termination that depresses me. It's like there's a box for: 'trans rights' and you've got to take the whole box or you're a Nazi. Asking to look in the box is not permitted. Asking why this is not permitted, is not permitted.

Every other rights movement makes (and made) arguments. They were good arguments and the making of them made society better. I want to hear the arguments and make progress.

The left now isn't what you spent years supporting, it'll never be that again, they are about those they precise to be 'young people' and good soundbites, nothing else, they have absolutely no substance.

The right is equally fucked.

So, there is a debate. Like it or not, there is a debate. Ignoring it is not really a very helpful strategy. At best, it just makes RLB look intensely unaware and ignorant.

Long Bailey is a plank. Its no surprise. Labour lost the election 5 minutes ago not completely unrelated to to their mentally uber woke wanky stance on bloody everything. It’s going to be years before they manage to truly rid themselves of this nonsense. As a life long Labour supporter from a Labour area I will not be voting for them until they visibly come out in favour and support of women and common sense. It makes me sick. They should be ashamed of themselves.

I'm not convinced they actually want to win an election. They seem to be having far too much fun playing plunge the dagger into your comrade's back.

Fucking Useless.

Wouldn't let her run a bath.

RLB is a total nitwit. And unconvincing with it.

Thought termination is such a great description! A v smart woman I know said she can't discuss this subject at all with her 19 year old daughter. Even asking simple questions to understand her position gets shut down with "your a bigot/TWAW/trans rights are human rights" and that's it. No explaination or discussion, just as assumption that the act of asking questions is a betrayal of the cause.

Culty culty. But something Stephanie Davi s-Arai said, (to paraphrase) this is a youth movement (albeit underscore by middle aged blokes), and youth are fickle and will move on soon enough.

Yes, that was a stock answer, but the question was framed terribly, too "Should there be a debate about trans rights".

I mean you'd be hard pressed to answer that one with a "this isn't a debate that's pro or anti trans rights but pro or anti self-id" if you don't have the time to properly explain yourself (I do realise RBL likely doesn't understand the issue at all. Finding that with a lot of politicians who have only listened to the pro self-id side on this).

Sorry, RLB not RBL!

youth are fickle and will move on soon enough.

That's not true, if you get them young, you tend to get them for life.

Youth are tribal. The lot coming up through the schools now are taking the piss out of identity politics something rotten, rather like how we mocked old hippies in the 80s.

That's the youth who are at state schools mock, they don't matter a jot, they are the general public, they are us, we never wanted this and never will. We don't matter, nobody represents us in politics.

I'm talking about the youth of the powerful, the youth who will be in power one day, they've all been hooked.

The best we can expect is to be part of a group who are less apathetic and numb with life, to go out kicking and screaming pointing out the divide rather than watching TV and letting it happen.

Yes, that was a stock answer, but the question was framed terribly, too "Should there be a debate about trans rights".

I agree it's a badly framed question.

It's like the 'should people be free to choose their own gender identity' question. Yeah, sure, as long as you don't conflate it with sex.

I keep getting ‘please return to labour’ letters and I do consider but there’s always something on this forum that reminds how far out of my sight they’ve become.