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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Drag Queen Story Time at the British Library

356 replies

TundraDweller · 04/02/2020 10:17

Three Drag Queen Story Times in one day -

www.bl.uk/events/family-day-young-rebels

OP posts:
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TheProdigalKittensReturn · 05/02/2020 08:06

In most of the photos I've seen the kids have looked a bit baffled, Chatty, while their parents and the facilitators beamed with enthusiasm. So maybe it's not for the kids at all really.

Lordfrontpaw · 05/02/2020 08:08

Ds has an issue with people dressed up when he was little. It was as if they were telling lies and - as with most small kids - he hated people telling lies.

You - you’re not a banana!
You’re not the yo-yo bear!
You’re not Charles Dickens!
You’re not Spider-Man!

He would have exploded.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 05/02/2020 08:11

Did he do it with the shopping center Santa too?

(This is the only non horrifying part of the thread so far so I'm clinging to it for comfort for a while.)

SarahTancredi · 05/02/2020 08:13

lord

Mine are the same. Even at 9 and 13 they still hate seeing people in costumes. They can differentiate between situation so if something was part of a parade/festival and it wasnt a personal meet and greet they arent to bothered. Being in a confined area with 6 ft something men in ridiculous outfits and over exaggerated mannerisms however, they wouldnt get anywhere near them.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 05/02/2020 08:21

I remember being disturbed when my mum got a drastic haircut at about 5 or 6. My bestie in high school was scared of clowns. God knows how either of us age 3 would have reacted to a giant man in a bad wig and a sparkly gown twerking.

Justhadathought · 05/02/2020 09:20

And to be honest - wrangling a room full of toddlers is a fine art. Are they likely to be trained or parents themselves

Absolutely. in fact teaching any group is both an art and a skill. Many people think they could teach - but ten find themselves in front of an attentive/inattentive group - and realise that there is a lot more to it than they had ever imagined.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 05/02/2020 09:25

We had a pantomime dame last autumn wandering around a few events advertising the local pantomime. I had to convince a 5 year old that they were not, in fact, a woman. Clearly hold ten rely on social cues at that age. It is one of the reasons I am not sure that wholesale rejection of gender is a great idea.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 05/02/2020 09:25

*hold ten = children

Justhadathought · 05/02/2020 09:26

In most of the photos I've seen the kids have looked a bit baffled, Chatty, while their parents and the facilitators beamed with enthusiasm. So maybe it's not for the kids at all really

It isn't! The children are being used by the adults........and by adults who have no real concept of how such young children view and experience the world.

Pantomime dames have never been for the children either; nor are many of Justin's performances on BBC: they're for the adults in the room. Small children are just confused by them.

Justhadathought · 05/02/2020 09:28

The number of people who say they find clowns scary.........even after being taken to the circus as a children, and told that clowns were funny and were meant for their entertainment. Children register things in very immediate and literal ways, and are highly susceptible to dissonance and ambiguity.

PhonicTheHedgehog · 05/02/2020 09:30

Interesting seeing people mention Justin. My DC are too old for CBeebies so I haven’t thought of him for a long time. I do remember watching him and feeling uncomfortable and feeling bad about feeling uncomfortable. Then coming on here for affirmation that he’s a nice guy. He’s very much a clown when he’s he character, and it’s definitely a character, well to me as an adult anyway it’s certain. I don’t really like clowns.

Justhadathought · 05/02/2020 09:30

I had to convince a 5 year old that they were not, in fact, a woman

Yes, the scary 'witch-woman' of a young child's nightmares.

RoyalCorgi · 05/02/2020 09:32

I've just had this memory of taking daughter, who at the time was aged about 3 or 4, to see Angelina Ballerina visit our local shopping centre. Daughter was disconcerted to see this very large Angelina Ballerina (ie an adult in a suit) rather than a tiny little mouse.

She was faintly disturbed by the whole thing. I'm not sure the people doing this drag queen stuff have thought it through properly.

Justhadathought · 05/02/2020 09:34

I don’t really like clowns

There can't be many that do......again it is the dissonance between what is being presented ( funny/smiley) and the actual feelings they invoke ( scary/ugly/untrustworthy/face painted one way - but behaviour says something else).

SarahTancredi · 05/02/2020 09:38

I hate clowns too.

Which seems ridiculous as I.can watch IT fine and I dont find it scary. But pennywise is evil. We know hes meant to be evil. Even when hes pretending to be nove for the kids he cant hide the evil. Therefore hes exactly what hes supposed to be. Theres no lie. No deception. It's not the same

boldlygoingsomewhere · 05/02/2020 09:39

When my DD was younger (about 3-4), she thought Justin as ‘Aunt Polly’ was an actual woman. She couldn’t get her head round the fact it was a man dressed up. A few years later and she totally gets that panto dames are actually men.
It seems that teaching about ‘gender identity’ is almost taking children back to a previous stage of child development rather than allowing their understanding to mature.

Lordfrontpaw · 05/02/2020 09:40

I think that people deep down think that lurking behind the clowns face paint is the IT clown. Plus in old films about the circus the clown was always hiding a deep dark secret...

CaptainKirksSpikeyGhost · 05/02/2020 09:41

I'm not sure the people doing this drag queen stuff have thought it through properly.

Make no mistake it's been Very carefully thought out.

Iamanaubergine · 05/02/2020 10:21

However might British school libraries be getting Queered by arts graduates?

I do think this has some weight. I used to work in a public library in a northern city and libraries do tend to attract a certain type of person. The old school librarians and library staff have gradually retired and been replaced with unqualified arts graduates who are cheaper and more than happy to push their ideals. There is a significant number of gay males & women from the ‘woker’ areas of the city who work there too.

Wisteria28 · 05/02/2020 13:39

The responses in this thread show exactly why DQST is needed. Honestly I’ve never seen such nonsense. A lot of dangerous assumptions are being made here and half of you don’t have a clue how DQST actually operates. The accusations flying around are detrimental to your fellow human beings and the behaviour of some of the people in this thread is absolutely disgusting. I would go as far as saying your children are at more of a safeguarding risk being raised by you than having a story read to them by a drag queen.

The families and children that are choosing to attend this event are not being forced. If it’s not your thing don’t go. No one is making you.

Do your research and stop being so ignorant and quite frankly offensive.

PhonicTheHedgehog · 05/02/2020 13:50

I’m planning on going. I’m taking my 57 year old child with me.

Lordfrontpaw · 05/02/2020 13:50

Do please explain what small children are getting out of this?

Goosefoot · 05/02/2020 13:54

or if deep down they believe in the gender roles too but recognize that those roles make some people miserable and therefore some form of escape must be offered (for those specific individuals, while leaving the larger social framework intact).

I think maybe it's not quite about "believing" in gender roles. I think many people see an attraction to being masculine or feminine (or sometimes both) as innate in some way. I think that's most people's experience of how they feel themselves. Probably the better thinkers realise that what is seen as masculine or feminine is somewhat variable, while others may see them as more fixed. I'm not sure they aren't right, or partly right, about people feeling an attraction or affinity, or a desire to express their sex roles in a cultural context.

I think there is a connection with the way some of the parents are also ver into gender neutral clothing etc for kids. They have accepted the idea that it is really really important to let the kids be themselves, and express their inner feelings, through their clothing. So they need to wait for that to come out before imposing it, and asking someone to say, wear a dress when they don't like dresses is a sort of violence against their individual personality - not just wearing some clothes that wouldn't be your choice. It's like style or being a tomboy or wanting to wear sparkles is a necessary expression of someone's inner being.

FWIW I think feminists who think cultural expressions of gender or sexual expression can ever be done away with are barking up the wrong tree, and it's something I've thought about a lot. I think that's also the view of a lot of regular people in a fairly "common sense' sort of way too, though. They don't consider that it's realistic to talk about us all dressing and living as if our sex only matters to us when it comes to things directly related to having sex or babies.

Mossyrock · 05/02/2020 13:54

Wisteria28

So explain why children need this. Why? What's in it for the children?

Why is hyper sexualised drag beneficial to children?

SarahTancredi · 05/02/2020 14:00

Given a drag queen released a video message telling parents not to take their kids to see them then perhaps you should start there with your "education"Hmm