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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

My complaint to Sussex Police re their handling of protest at WPUK Brighton Meeting

668 replies

WomanBornNotWorn · 03/02/2020 11:01

I was at the WPUK meeting in Brighton in September.

It was targeted by a group of protestors rather bigger than Saturday's London bunch - well, that one was just a little posy ...

They kicked and punched the windows for several hours, while Julie Bindel's video shows police officers staring into space:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7497869/Anger-crowd-transgender-rights-protesters-intimidate-meeting-womens-rights-group.html

I submitted a complaint that the officers allowed it to go on for a long time (watch the WPUK videos on You Tube and you'll hear it).

I've now received the detailed response from the police:

"Following your complaint, made regarding the actions of Sussex Police in dealing with a protest at a Woman’s Place UK meeting in Brighton on 23 September 2019, I have now completed my enquiries.

In your complaint you explained that you were unhappy that the officers who attended the incident at the Woman’s Place meeting took no action to prevent the disruption from protesters and stood by while protesters were shouting and banging on the windows of where the meeting was taking place.

Chief Inspector Sproston was the Public Order Silver Commander during the event, he held full responsibility for the actions of the staff who reported to him and he provided a report following the event.

The Bronze Commander was Inspector Lovell who was on the ground with the Public Order teams, he provided me with an account of the event.

Chief Inspector Sproston was fully aware of the problem caused by protestors at a previous WPUK meeting in the city and the requirements for public order policing. He and Inspector Lovell held a briefing prior to the event and formulated a plan to manage the protest against WPUK using the Protest Liaison Team (PLT).

The agreed venue, which WPUK had arranged for the meeting, was at the Odeon cinema. This afforded complete security with no access to the protestors once inside the venue. However on the evening of the event, the Odeon management declined to allow WPUK to hold their meeting there and the venue was changed. WPUK organisers had already identified a secondary location which Sussex Police were unaware of until they were informed of the venue changed half an hour before the meeting was due to start.

Inspector Lovell deployed his staff to the new venue at the BMECP Centre in Fleet Street using the same plan as was intended at the Odeon. Protestors were already at the venue and a public order team were sent to the front of the building. There were also four security staff employed by WPUK at the front, controlling entry to the building. The initial approach had been to use the PLT to try and engage with the protestors and they deployed as soon as they arrived at the new venue.

As the meeting progressed, part of the protest group went to the rear of the premises where the windows to the meeting room were at ground level. The protestors began banging on the windows and the PLT asked them to stop. When the banging escalated Inspector Lovell sent two Public Order Teams to form a cordon in front of the windows.

The protestors continued shouting and chanting at the front and the rear of the premises. Residents from the flats above threw water down onto the protestors, which also covered some of the Police Officers, but it could not be ascertained exactly which flat it had come from.

Chief Inspector Sproston had considered a number of things when making his assessment. The venue had been moved, with no notice, to a location that police had not been able to carry out a reconnaissance at. Their public order assessment had been for the Odeon cinema which had one manageable entrance and resources available to deal with that. Chief Inspector Sproston is confident that had there been a consultation on the new site, it would not have been recommended by police.

WPUK have the right to hold a meeting and not be subject to serious disorder, damage or disruption to the community. The protestors have the right to protest under articles 9, 10 and 11 of the Human Rights Act. Freedom of Expression under article 10 is applicable to the expression of views that may shock, disturb or offend the deeply held beliefs of others. This does however, have to be balanced against the rights of WPUK.

Chief Inspector Sproston considered imposing section 14 of the Public Order Act 1986 as the banging on the windows could have been interpreted as being intended to intimidate WPUK members with a view to compelling them not to hold their meeting, which they had a right to do.

Section 14 would have allowed the senior officer present to stipulate the location, duration and numbers of people allowed to protest. There was no suitable place to direct the protestors to as any place which would not have affected the venue of the meeting, would have meant the protestors would have been completely out of sight of the venue. This would have effectively stopped the protest and not just restricted its effect which is not in the spirit of articles 9, 10 and 11 of the Humans Rights Act. In turn this would have not stood up to scrutiny or challenge.

Although the protestors were loud, the meeting did go ahead and there were no reports of serious disorder, serious damage to property or disruption to the life of the community.

Public nuisance under common law was also considered. However this offence constitutes injury, loss or damage to the public in general. Undoubtedly the protestors were a nuisance by their presence but they did not commit this offence.

Inspector Lovell reported that there was no effort on behalf of the protestors to damage or enter the building. No one was prevented from entering or exiting the building and the meeting was able to go ahead.
There were 6 phone calls to police between 18:30 and 21:00, four from people inside the venue and two from third parties who were not in attendance.

The first caller was at 18:37 expressing concerns over people outside shouting. During the call they told the call taker that police were arriving on scene.

The second caller was at 19:15 concerned about the banging on windows. During the call they advised the call taker that police were now inside the building and helping.

The next two callers were also from inside the venue who expressed concerns about the banging on windows. One was at 19:24 and another at 19:27 who said that she was scared to leave the venue due to protestors smashing on the glass.

The last two callers were from third parties who had been in contact with people inside the venue. They were alerting the police to the banging on windows. One call was at 20:32 and the other at 20:54

There was only one call from a local resident at 21:20 complaining about the noise from the protestors. However Sussex Police were aware and monitoring the social media posts.

I have viewed Body Worn Video footage from several officers at the event. I have also viewed the video footage obtained by the Public Order Evidence Gathering Team (EGT).

At 19:09 the EGT footage showed a small group at the rear of the building with a few of the protestors banging on windows with their hands. The PLT were speaking with the protestors.

At 19:27 the EGT footage showed a larger group gathering at the rear and many of them were banging on the windows with their hands. The public order teams formed a cordon in front of the windows and the officers were physically pushing the protestors away from the building in order to prevent a Breach of the Peace.

At 19:30 BWV footage showed the officers getting between the protestors and the building to form the cordon, preventing the protestors from banging on the windows. Although some banging could be heard in the background, it was unclear where this was coming from. The footage continued until 20:20 and showed the officers with their backs against the building. The protestors formed a line in front of the police, with their backs to them whilst they continued to shout and chant.

At 21:09 BWV footage showed a protestor telling the group to go to the front of the building as the meeting was coming to an end. She told the protestors make sure they filmed the police and got their ID numbers.

At 21:11 BWV footage showed the police cordon between the protestors and the building, leaving a clear walkway for the attendees to leave the meeting. The protestors continued shouting until everyone had left the building.

The protestors were creating a lot of noise and their chants were not only against WPUK, they included obscenities aimed at the police. The footage supports the reports made by Chief Inspector Sproston and Inspector Lovell. There was no violence and no serious disorder.

Using the core principles, and legal framework set out by the College of Policing in their Authorised Professional Practice, I am satisfied that the event was policed lawfully, proportionately and appropriately.

The Professional Standards Department will retain a copy of your complaint and the local resolution outcome."

OP posts:
OhDeez · 05/02/2020 04:18

do we think we should be reporting comments in which rather hostile people are demanding to know whether other commenters have been raped? If that's not quite over the line yet in terms of breaking comment rules it's certainly getting very close to it.

Do we think that you're trying to shut me up because you can't put up a coherent argument or defence? Yes.

nolongersurprised · 05/02/2020 04:20

I’m more cynical than that. My concern would be that the kind of person who is promoting forced intrusion of male bodies into female spaces actually might enjoy hearing tales of sexual assault.

Still, leave it up. Important to see when the masks slip.

OhDeez · 05/02/2020 04:20

This reply has been deleted

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ItsLateHumpty · 05/02/2020 04:22

OhDeez you can emphasis with transwomen, but you can't empathise with other women who don't have the same experience or reaction than you do?

We may not even all have the same reasons to not want transwomen in womens spaces. Not a hive, or a mass. Women are individuals.

Shock news.

OhDeez · 05/02/2020 04:22

This reply has been deleted

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TheProdigalKittensReturn · 05/02/2020 04:23

It people are inclined to answer questions it might be more helpful to answer the ones they've actually been asked rather than the ones they thought up themselves.

You're probably right about not reporting, nolongersurprised. I generally lean that way, but if a particular person is pushing other women's being forced to remember the worst thing that ever happened to them buttons then I may be inclined to make an exception.

OhDeez · 05/02/2020 04:23

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nolongersurprised · 05/02/2020 04:23

You're backwards bible bashing bigots and you don't like the mirror being held up to you.

10/10 for alliteration. 2/10 for trolling.

ItsLateHumpty · 05/02/2020 04:24

It takes 10 minutes to get around a MN ban

Ahh, showed your hand - you're not posting in good faith and I've just realised youre the same poster that's being confrontational and fairly aggressive on another thread.

Thanks for the heads up.

OhDeez · 05/02/2020 04:24

10/10 for not being afraid to express an opinion contrary to the popular view in this narrow minded little enclave of MN.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 05/02/2020 04:25

I’m more cynical than that. My concern would be that the kind of person who is promoting forced intrusion of male bodies into female spaces actually might enjoy hearing tales of sexual assault.

That was my concern too. Doesn't bother me, I'm pretty much teflon as far as randoms trying to upset me is concerned, but I'm aware that I'm rather lucky in that regard.

ItsLateHumpty · 05/02/2020 04:25

Nice try at trying to get the thread deleted. Transparent much?

Aww I'm glad to be a woman (yes, with a cunt Grin)

OhDeez · 05/02/2020 04:25

It's irrelevant Humpty. MN can ban me all they like lol.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 05/02/2020 04:27

Can we take a moment to appreciate the hilarious lack of cultural appropriateness inherent in "bible bashing bigots" on a British site? I'm not sure anyone British who I know irl has ever owned a bible.

ItsLateHumpty · 05/02/2020 04:28

I don't care if you're banned or not, but you are sounding a bit tedious now.

I do care that this thread is not deleted, so I'll no longer interact with you.

Go well.

nolongersurprised · 05/02/2020 04:28

You're probably right about not reporting, nolongersurprised. I generally lean that way, but if a particular person is pushing other women's being forced to remember the worst thing that ever happened to them buttons then I may be inclined to make an exception.

The question about rape was probably directed at me and rather than feed their fetish or get them deleted I’d much rather see how faux innocent questions about “how do you define a woman?” escalate when such posters are challenged.

OhDeez · 05/02/2020 04:30

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ItsLateHumpty · 05/02/2020 04:32

I'm not sure anyone British who I know irl has ever owned a bible.

Oo ooh Kittens - my family did when my mom joined the cult aka the Church of Latter Day Saints.

Oh, but thinking about it, it wasn't mine, so does it still count?!

Wink
TheProdigalKittensReturn · 05/02/2020 04:32

I'm waiting with baited breath to be accused of watching television shows/channels that don't even air in the UK.

OhDeez · 05/02/2020 04:32

And I hope you have your bibles to hand if any of your offspring come out as LGBT.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 05/02/2020 04:33

I’d much rather see how faux innocent questions about “how do you define a woman?” escalate when such posters are challenged.

The time gap between "how do you define a woman?" and "HAVE YOU BEEN RAPED?" was rather brief, wasn't it?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 05/02/2020 04:34

Thinking about it, I used to know a minister when I was at school, does he count? It wasn't know in the family friend sense so much as oh yeah I met him once he seemed nice.

OhDeez · 05/02/2020 04:34

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OhDeez · 05/02/2020 04:36

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nolongersurprised · 05/02/2020 04:36

*Odds are one of you bigots has a LGBT child.

Expect to be the last to know and for your dc to completely shut your bigoted tiny minds out of their lives.*

The next threat, usually, is that you’ll dox us and inform our employers.