Science proves transwomen ARE women

[Toomanytears]

I was reading one of the other threads that led me on to Twitter and, you know how it goes, I ended up seeing this. Can someone please explain it to me? Surely if this person has discovered that they are XX then they are in fact a woman and not as they previously believed a trans woman. Or may be, just maybe they are being a touch economical with the truth

Yeah, anonymous tweeter claims to be xx TW. A lie much more likely given Gender services gave up testing karyotypes / dsd as all came back negative

It would be really interesting to know why they thought they were male.

They are either male, female, or intersex. What they cannot do is change from one to the other.

I actually did some research on this a while ago for anyone interested (although this person could possibly be making this up!)

There is actually a medical condition called De la Chapelle syndrome, if you wanted to have a look online - I’m going to bed or I would explain further!

Is this like how a few years ago they were claiming that the skin cells from the penis, once made into a neovagina, transform into mucus membrane because they (the skin cells, which apparently are capable of cognition) just know that they're meant to be a vagina?

Interestingly, it is possible, 1 in 20,000 males. I love science, it's fascinating how much variation there is. That must be a confusing condition to deal with.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/XXmalee_syndrome

If this is true, it proves that this individual has a very rare intersex disorder which proves this person has an intersex condition. It proves nothing else. If you did the chromosomes of 20,000 trans women 19,999 on them would have at least XY.

This account claims all sorts of things to the extent they have a dedicated discussion thread of nearly 400 pages elsewhere on the internet.

Cut from the same cloth as McKinnon and Yaniv in terms of outlandish nonsense.

Kleinfelter syndrome is XXY, which is 1:1
500 /1:1000 males. Maybe he means that. Incidentally my daughter has 3 x's so this was the first thing that came to mind.

@TheProdigalKittensReturn that's not the only vaginoplasty available - grafts from the colon can be used which has mucosal cells. I think it's called a Sigmoid vaginoplasty but I could be wrong - I'm no professional, just done a lot of reading up!

46 XX DSD exists - male genitalia with XX chromosomes. Typically raised as male (of course, what with those male genitalia) and identify as male though.

This particular person may or may not have it, but it doesn't mean that transwomen are women.

TRAs grasping at straws again.

Technically you could have mosaicism/chimerism enabling at least some cells to have XX chromosomes but still develop a male sexed body, reproductive system & sex hormones, I guess. Don’t know if that’s ever been recorded.

Still doesn’t prove TWAW, though. Just proves biology is awesome (in the true sense of the word).

Well, that's settled then...

I know that. ACat, and it is in no way relevant to the comment I made about people believing that their sentient skin cells somehow transform into a different kind of skin cells when surgically rearranged.

Oh for fucks sake. It's all just bullshit.

This person is what they were born as. Female or intersex with xx chromosomes and ambiguous external genetalia.

I'm utterly frustrated with this shit.

rainy that was my feeling. I get that some trans people have very different views from me about the whole subject but the outright lying is frustrating.

Have done my little bit for the cause this week and spoken with local govt who I am absolutely sure will feed back to my MP that women's rights is a big voting issue for me. And, more worryingly, I corrected my tutor in class as she was using gender in place of sex when talking about Equality Act. She also said there wasn't really any difference but I was cheered that a few fairly young women spoke up to agree with me and think we started educating a few people. I am considering making a complaint at the end of the course.

If you can bear to I think complaining would be a good idea.

Solidarity, sister!

I have a few other niggles about the way they teach but this pushed me over the edge. I understand that in day to day conversation the two are used interchangeably (which is part of the problem) but I do think you should get it right when talking about the law.

Will have a careful think about what to say.

Sending you strength and support

So that Twitter poster is still male, but now known to be sterile with a DSD intersex condition and they thinks this proves people can change sex ?

I wish critical thinking and logic was taught as standard, in all secondary schools. This person clearly needs more help in this area.

@Toomanytears it might be useful to pop over to the Academic common room forum on MN to ask how most effectively to make a complaint.

I agree with you - we must make the distinction between sex and gender, but I’m a bit hmmmmm about complaining about what a tutor/lecturer thinks or says. (I had the opposite complaint - that my thinking was dangerous for trans students). It’s a really tricky area because universities are being called to account for academic freedom of speech.

So try to think about articulating your concern in terms of accuracy rather than belief, maybe. And don’t raise it as a complaint about ideas, but a concern about accuracy perhaps.

Just trying to think through what would be most effective. You have to understand academics’ very fierce defence of their autonomy of thought. And it’s right to do so - if we invoke censorship, it can also be invoked against us.

I think their point is that despite being to all appearances male, and presumably raised and seen by others as typically male, they nonetheless 'knew' they were female, and ta-daaaaa, turns out they were right, chromosomally speaking.

I find that interesting, certainly.

Just not very relevant to all those raised as male and outwardly male because they ARE male who still somehow 'know' they are female but are wrong.

"turns out they were right, chromosomally speaking."

But he wasn't right. There are two versions XX male and XX female of that intersex condition. He still has a male sex with female karatypes.

Intersex does not equal sex change.

I suspect this is a lie from start to finish, as most people given such a diagnosis would be concerned about the long term effects and dealing with the fact they are sterile, rather than posting gleefully on Twitter.

Yes, fair enough. I hadn’t realised that ‘male’ was terminology specific to karyotype.

Would it be accurate to have said ‘Turns out that they had female-typical chromosomes’?

Possibly they are too young to have discovered whether they are fertile.

It's pure fantasy, and I don't believe it.
Not every word spoken by randoms on twitter is entirely reliable.

XX males do not usually suddenly discover they have xx chromosomes in adulthood, after a lifetime of normal health.

It is a DSD. It presents physical problems from birth or childhood, and is revealed then, at least in developed countries with good healthcare.

"I had my karyotype done"?
By whom, I wonder.