Father starts judicial review over 'No Outsiders' programme

[ScrimshawTheSecond]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/father-says-hed-go-to-jail-over-trans-lessons-m3hhhsf5m?fbclid=IwAR0qzRTd3g_2Ql1O4seZtm1gcdj87gqTPbGR1AG5p1yKtV4dCLvKVbRas2Y

'The first parent to face prosecution after withdrawing his child from a school because it offers LGBT lessons says he is willing to go to jail.'

some pp have a very strange idea of what goes on in schools. Every day we are dealing with prejudice. It is schools moral and legal duty to address this. Whatever the views of parents. Clearly there is a professional judgment to be made by schools and parkfield have done a very poor job in this case imo but that doesn’t mean schools should just go with whatever the parents think.

cuckoo do you see no problem with the state using schools to impose the 'correct' view on children? That is the most worrying thing here: that you thing it OK for the state to use schools to instill political ideology on children.

On homosexuality the state accepts that it is reasonable for people not to accept same sex marriage and this is written into law.

That homosexuality is morally wrong when it isn’t. That is the position of the state.

The state doesn't have a position on the morality of homosexuality. The state's position is that homosexuality is legal.The state also recognises that some religious groups may not agree with same sex marriage.

Please don’t try to make out I’m in favour of the state brainwashing children. I can see what you’re implying and you’re way off the the mark. This isn’t North Korea. The children are free to disagree with their teachers and stick with their parents views if they choose to But schools are not bound to endorse the views of the parents regardless of what those views are.

Children are not free to disagree though are they. Remember the boy expelled for challenging the teacher on ‘sex is a spectrum’ ?

oldcrone schools are obligated to provide a moral education to their students.

Yes one example should definitely be extrapolated to every classroom in the country. Well done. We now live in a totalitarian state in which teachers have all the power.

schools are obligated to provide a moral education to their students.

Are they? Can you link to the legislation?

If this is true, then whose morality should they be teaching? A teacher who is very religious might think it is their moral duty to teach that although homosexuality is legal, that it is morally wrong, because those moral teachings are what that teacher believes.

What you are suggesting is reminiscence of totalitarian states. I didn't think I was just implying that - I thought I was pointing this out.

As for free to disagree - if a girl decides she does not wish to undress in front of a boy then teachers are now being directed to report this to the police as a hate incident.

There is a totalitarian nature to this ideology. Dissent is not permitted: #nodebate. People losing jobs for saying sex is real. People being told by the police to check their thinking for laughing at the ideology.

This doesn’t happen to atheists or those who are adherents of Buddhism. It happens to people who challenge this ideology. So yes totalitarian elements. That’s actually one of my main objections to it - I’m not otherwise very much affected.

oldcrone the national curriculum statements are freely available on the dept of Ed website. You’ll find it there.

aesopfable what I am suggesting is nothing like a totalitarian state. If you think it is then you have no idea what it’s like to live under such a regime.

No legislation then Cuckoo? If you want to convince people that your statements are correct, you can link to some evidence. I don't intend to read hundreds of pages of documents just in order to discover that you're making stuff up.

How many little girls who have refused to get undressed in front of boys have been reported to the police for hate crimes?

And Cuckoo, you still haven't said whose morality the schools should be teaching. Morality is a very personal thing.

I take it you’ve seen the CPS guidance cuckoo?

what I am suggesting is nothing like a totalitarian state. If you think it is then you have no idea what it’s like to live under such a regime.

We might all find out soon with the new CPS guidance.

Ok oldcrone if you can’t be bothered to inform yourself that’s fine by me. I don’t really care to convince anyone on here. I was just engaging with a conversation but it seems that I have become the enemy for daring to suggest that schools have a place in shaping society and addressing prejudice. I’m out.

cuckoo we know official/state documents include teaching this non-scientific ideology as fact and that children are being threatened with criminal records if they do not agree with it. No freedom of thought allowed. Thought itself is criminalised. Why do you think we are objecting?

Children are not free to disagree though are they. Remember the boy expelled for challenging the teacher on ‘sex is a spectrum’?

No, that’s untrue. He was not excluded for challenging a teacher.

The exclusion was based on a history of disruptive behaviour in school, along with publicly posting a secretly filmed video of a member of staff on school premises.

This is on record in statements from the school and the LEA.

Exclusion is a rigorous process with multiple layers of documentation, panels and appeals.

Since you couldn't be bothered to post a link to back up your assertions Cuckoo, I had a quick look (on the basis that I wouldn't spend too much time looking for something which might not exist).

I found this in a NC document. Is this what you're referring to?

Every state-funded school must offer a curriculum which is balanced and broadly based* and which:

promotes the spiritual, moral, cultural, mental and physical development of pupils at the school and of society

Perhaps you would be so kind as to point me to the part of the document where it says whose morality should be imposed on the children when they are being taught about sexual matters.

Moffat has framed his project as being about the EA and all the protected characteristics.

Religion or belief is a protected characteristic. Inevitably there are conflicts of rights within the EA and when they crop up they need dealing with sensitively and with respect for the rights of all affected groups.

In her article on Transgender Trend, Shelley Charlesworth analyses the teaching materials used in No Outsiders and the protected characteristics they deal with. Out of 17 books that can be linked to a protected characteristic, 5 are about sexual orientation, 4 are about gender reassignment. None are about religion or belief. In a school where 98% of children are from muslim families!

Moffat bangs on about the PSED but it's hard to see how what he's doing can possibly foster good relations between people with a protected characteristic and those who don't share it. Evidently it's NOT fostering good relations. Let's see his equality impact assessment.

I saw Moffat on the local news when this first kicked off. He, in my opinion, deliberately misrepresented the protected characteristic by stating gender not SEX was protected. Said it all to me.

I was just engaging with a conversation but it seems that I have become the enemy for daring to suggest that schools have a place in shaping society and addressing prejudice

It's a shame you don't want to discuss with people who don't automatically agree with everything you say. This is currently an enormous problem in a wider context, where people see disagreement with their position as a personal attack. I see it as a learning opportunity for both parties.

No moral position is implied or stated in the law around sexual practices. But some perfectly legal practices are viewed as immoral by some religious groups. This isn't an easy problem to solve, but simply labelling the parents as bigots seems intolerant and is unlikely to achieve a solution.

1. For decades, Islamic and other religious fundamentalists have been deliberately working to influence goverment and other bodies.

2. For slightly less time, trans activists have been doing the same, and one of the tools is to add T to LGB.

3. It's interesting that when the government decides it's time to do something about 1) it doesn't choose, say, women's rights, but 'LGBT'.