Reddit progress

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MRA Reddit subreddits r/TheRedPill and r/MGTOW have now been identified as "shocking and offensive" and quarantined and scheduled for deletion!

We should complain to Reddit about r/MensRights and get that one quarantined too.

Most parents who are anti-vaxxers are genuinely concerned about the safety of their children.

And a sad parent saying that their kid was fine till they got the MMR and now they are autistic will be more convincing to many than an expert with a graph.

It is hard to undo disinformation. Sometimes impossible.

Yes, it can be hard to undo disinformation. But that is the price for allowing people to express their opinions. Everything has pros and cons.
Free speech vs suppression - both come with their advantages and disadvantages.
Some people might find free speech too lenient. Others might might suppression intolerant and veering into dangerous territory.
The fact that you can criticise and question the limitations of free speech is a testament to its validity.

There will always be difficult and upsetting differences between human beings. Democratic societies function by agreeing to disagree. We might hold all sorts of objectionable beliefs and thoughts. That is not the same as acting out on those beliefs and thoughts.

I think if people are organising under the banner of the Nazis that’s enough indication that their intentions are not good. Who joins a Nazi group for quiet discussion?

Paediphilia has a clear line, albeit one that varies from country to country.

Nazis, actual Nazis, are abhorrent, but there aren’t actually that many of them. There are far more people who are being accused of Nazism for completely unrelated reasons. Y’know, like not agreeing that human beings can change sex.

How would a Nazi ban ensure only actual Nazis are banned?

Censorship isn’t progress.

When men harass women attending GC meetings, they do it because they think some ideas are impure and shouldn’t be expressed.

That’s where censorship leads.

Sunlight = disinfectant. Argue with people, don’t shut them down.

There are far more people who are being accused of Nazism for completely unrelated reasons.

The US has a different view and allows people to march carrying swastika flags.

This ‘sunlight’ doesn’t appear to have solved the problem, and indeed it leads to violent, sometimes deadly clashes.

The US clearly has a problem with right/left violence but i don’t see how that’s a reason to shut down the Reddit Red Pill subforum.

How violent are the societies which prohibit sunlight? The ones that immediately come to mind are China, North Korea, and Saudi Arabia.

If only there were some stages between freedom to wave swastikas and total state control of your thoughts.

The current line is incitement to commit crime.
I think that’s fine, personally.

It isn't clear to me whether this thread is about prohibition of discussions in private spaces, controlled by private entities, or discussions in public spaces, controlled by the state.

Of course a private entity can prohibit discussion in the spaces it controls. However, the discussion will happen elsewhere so what then?

When the feminist discussion takes place in the real world, this happens: www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=26&v=IDHtq9wKEkY&feature=emb_logo

(Footage from outside of Megan Muphy’s Seattle talk)

No swastika flags but otherwise it sure is hard to tell these Antifa activists from the Nazi ones at Charlottesville.

Gawd watched that YouTube

No hate no fear. The demonstrators were shouting but they looked really hateful and frightening

Towards women having a meeting

Call women terfs and you can now unleash your hate towards women

Could there possibly be any crossover between men who go on Reddit redpill and similar women-hating forums and those who harass women in real life?

I would expect so.

Are you coming at it from a safeguarding point of view? If so I can understand it, but do you really think a ban would help keep women safe? Do you think a man is going to change his opinions because he's no longer allowed to talk about them on Reddit? Or do you think a ban might only serve to fuel his resentment even further and drive him even deeper underground?

Some TRAs argue that this board makes them feel unsafe. Do you think it should be banned too? Would it change any of your opinions if it was?

I think that you can’t think that Mumsnet is responsible for ‘peaktransing’ loads of people who in real life would otherwise be totally unaware of the debate and at the same time think that Reddit redpill only provides a discussion forum for men who would already be women-haters and know all the anti-women lines in real life.

Of course not. Even the title is literally about opening people’s eyes to ‘the truth’.

If you think that MN feminism forums could be shut down on the same grounds as redpill then either you’re totally unaware of the level of redpill discourse, or you think that MN feminism is actually transphobic.

MNHQ keep it open because there is clearly a debate that needs to be had, particularly around the safeguarding of children.

You may think a debate needs to be had and I would agree with you. I think the point is that there are others who don't agree, who believe the feminist board should be shut down and who regard WPUK as a hate group.
Who gets to decide?
How are you going to challenge and potentially change people's views if they're not allowed to talk about them?

I think you must be confusing Mumsnet FWR with Gender Critical Reddit?

1. PT is one of the terms that are discouraged on Mumsnet.
2. What the owners of Reddit choose to do does not obligate Mumsnet to do the same, and Justine has made her commitment to Free speech clear on a number of occasions, including in interviews with mainstream media.

I find The Red Pill distasteful but not illegal, so I accept they have a right to hold and state those beliefs.
I’m sure plenty of users of The Red Pill would find the discourse on. Mumsnet equally distasteful, but the Relationships board is the one likely to be attracting ire.
FWR is pro liberation of women from the patriarchy (inc the patriciarchy!) and I’m sure some transactivists consider that to be transphobic, just as some feminists consider transactivism to be misogynistic.

If your intersectionality isn’t for the benefit of women, it isn’t feminism 🤷‍♀️

How are you going to challenge and potentially change people's views if they're not allowed to talk about them?

Is redpill a forum that encourages discussion and challenge? Is (was?) Stormfront open to respectful debate of white supremacy?

I don’t think that the existence of a forum automatically means that their ideas are open to discussion and challenge. Some people just want a circlejerk.

I think you must be confusing Mumsnet FWR with Gender Critical Reddit?

No. We both know that MN is under extreme pressure from activists to shut down a debate which is a massive feature of FWR. Famously so.

What seems to be happening is that people who in the past would have gone ‘obviously Nazi clubs shouldn’t be allowed’ are suddenly (and reasonably) thinking ‘shit, my free speech is under threat too, I’m going to start arguing that all speech should be allowed, including nazis and paedophiles, to safeguard my discussion’.

Whereas my view is that it should be possible to argue that GC discussion is sufficiently different to nazis and paedophiles to be able to allow one and not the other.

And further, that GC discussion is sufficiently different to redpill discussion that GC people shouldn’t be concerned with the closing of redpill.

I don’t know how GC Reddit compares to FWR though. Reddit tends to be a bit of a cesspool.

‘obviously Nazi clubs shouldn’t be allowed’

By whom? Private platforms like Reddit or by the state?

I meant specifically to do with your ‘PT’ phrase, which is oft used on Reddit GC, but not something anyone would associate with here.

I personally don’t think it possible to argue that free speech should only be for some. I can accept that free speech for me means free speech for arseholes I disagree with. Like I said ages back. Lurking The Red Pill was useful to me when it came to knowing what to avoid while dating. If those discussions took place only on invite-only, private spaces, it would be information lost to me.
I’m sure the police prefer contentious opinion to be in public sight too.

Whereas my view is.....
That's the problem though, isn't it? I'm sure you consider your own views to be perfectly reasonable, just as I view mine. No doubt we'd agree on some issues. The point is that other people regard those views as hateful. There's a poster on another thread right now comparing WPUK to the KKK. I'm pretty sure I've seen Owen Jones describe the LGB Alliance as a hate group. Who decides?

I meant specifically to do with your ‘PT’ phrase, which is oft used on Reddit GC, but not something anyone would associate with here.

You’re kidding, right? An advanced search throws up hundreds of hits, it is used loads here. If that is now frowned upon then that is a change I was not aware of.

There's a poster on another thread right now comparing WPUK to the KKK

And they will presumably be quite rightly handed their arse on a plate.

Who decides? Probably society in the end. It comes out in the wash if it’s a legitimate concern, I reckon. We are now discussing immigration, we are now discussing groups of Asian men grooming girls, we are now discussing putting male bodies in women’s prisons.