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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women on women’s march struggle to define women

58 replies

Kit19 · 29/01/2020 10:19

Sorry that this is from twitter but.....I’m off to find a wall to bang my head against

OP posts:
nauticant · 29/01/2020 18:19

any boundaries that prevent the 'oppressed' from entering said club are illegitimate and must be broken down, no matter who the 'oppressed' are and regardless of any safeguarding concerns this could entail

... and we're back to queer theory.

Goosefoot · 29/01/2020 18:48

I wonder if it is all part of what the Woke see as the ongoing battle between the oppressor and the oppressed. Any exclusive club (such as that of biological women) is automatically oppressive, and their knee-jerk response is that any boundaries that prevent the 'oppressed' from entering said club are illegitimate and must be broken down, no matter who the 'oppressed' are and regardless of any safeguarding concerns this could entail.

Yes, this is what people like Jordan Peterson call cultural Marxism. Which isn't a real thing, quite, but it's meant to be a description of what you are pointing out. A Marxist class, applied to almost any kind of group or category, with an assumption that one side is being oppressed, and the idea that by destroying the grouping it will create justice.

Thinking about it that way, it becomes easier to see how the left has been drawn into this type of thinking, even about a biological difference between the sexes. How often, for example, does a feminist analysis assume that women more often end up as carers because of class oppression, and somehow if the right conditions were achieved there would be a balance of men and women in such roles? Despite there being no strong empirical evidence for that, and some reason to think it may be false?

Childrenofthestones · 29/01/2020 19:37

"Thinking about it that way, it becomes easier to see how the left has been drawn into this type of thinking, even about a biological difference between the sexes."

Drew them in?
Who drew them into this thinking?
You're talking like they had no agency.
It's the lefts own dogma that has created this shit show. It was certainly nobody on the right. It was certainly nobody in the centre.

Goosefoot · 29/01/2020 20:35

I wasn't meaning that someone deliberately drew them into thinking that way, but that the logic of what they were already doing drew them in that direction.
I think that's what happens in a lot of examples of bad thinking. Someone accepts a dodgy idea, or some sort of practice, and they think it seems good at the time. But then it logically leads to something that is a problem. And you can't get out of that logical hole unless you backtrack to where you went wrong in the first place.
Often people don't want to do that though, they see that earlier step as something non-negotiable, already accomplished and are unwilling to rethink or reframe it.

Mayomaynot · 29/01/2020 20:41

"If a woman is "anyone who identifies as a woman" or "anyone who wants to be a woman" then what are you marching for? Surely you could just identify as a man an all of the problems you are marching for would simply disappear?"

Totally agree with you, applestrudels.

FrogsFrogs · 29/01/2020 20:44

I'm interested in being a woman is 'a process'.

Anyone got any ideas on this? I'd think being born to 'it's a girl', female socialisation, puberty, different expectations etc. If there's a process. The biology (sex) and the expectations on that sex (gender).

I'm assuming they don't mean that though. I'm intrigued what they do mean. It was a clever answer when put on the spot and interesting to see the relief on the first young woman's face when her friend answered!

samyeagar · 29/01/2020 20:45

This is the kind of crap that leads to people like Trump being elected.

Childrenofthestones · 29/01/2020 22:00

"This is the kind of crap that leads to people like Trump being elected."
Spot on.
In the US many on the left have never come to terms with the part they played in Trump winning. Unbelievably they are busy doing it again.

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