Oh BBC home page picture editor could you be more annoying?

[Trou]

This story is about normal-bodied middle aged presenter investigating swimming as a health activity. So why have an image of a super thin model in a too-small cozzy as the click-through image on the home page?
Also
Imagine the disappointment of those who do like a young ladle-ogle when they find the reality is Hugh Fearnley-Wittingstall in a pair of swimming trunks.

I have noticed the BBC are increasingly relying on unrelated stock images. When they actually have images of something then they should use it. Choosing this image is all about the woman in it being attractive and nothing about the article.

I also noticed this article. I wonder why women might be less keen than men? www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-leicestershire-48560119/naturist-swimming-club-wants-more-women-members

@DuLANGMondeFOREVER I didn’t realise the feminist message board was supposed to be an echo chamber. Do you not like reading different opinions from other women ? I’m telling you as a woman and a feminist that I don’t find this particular example to be objectifying as it fits the brief of the article.

For the same reason, exam results are univerally illustrated by pictures of (attractive) teenage girls leaping around in joy, not the boys who presumably make up around 50% of those receiving exam results.

Middle aged women aren’t interesting to editors. How the piece was edited is also interesting: I orchestrated the swim with HFW and was interviewed extensively, talking about the benefits of cold water swimming and explaining the science behind what happens physically as well as the social and emotional benefits. They also got sound bites from the other swimmers, including some quite powerful stories from people who swim to cope with bereavement, improve auto-immune conditions and depression. In the final edit, they only included a sound bite from one of the few men there.

The model on the click-through could be a winter swimmer — there’s a university group that swims with us of women who don’t look unlike her.

But it seems a shame to me that an inclusive, body positive middle-aged woman dominated activity is represented with a skinny model.

Also, you really don’t sit around looking pensive in January when it’s 4 degrees C in the air and water! You get wrapped up pronto!

Oh shut up everyone. We are just jealous of the "physique" of the model in the stock photograph placed there as clickbait.

Thanks phlossie, really interesting to hear your perspective, and well done for organising it. I'm also quite jealous as I now avoid very cold water because of a health condition, but I used to love it.

But it seems a shame to me that an inclusive, body positive middle-aged woman dominated activity is represented with a skinny model.

Her body shape is normal, not skinny, but our view of what is normal has become twisted by the normalisation of obesity.

Do you not like reading different opinions from other women

Not when it’s just is ‘I’m a feminist and that’s my opinion’, no.
Thought terminating cliche, mate.

And please don’t @ me.

Skinny was lazy choice of word: my point is that the woman in the bikini’s physique and pose is a poor representation of the subject of the article.

It’s not about normalising obesity (though there’s a difference between normalising obesity and making being obese less shameful, shame being a barrier to do something about it, eg taking up a healthy activity like swimming), it’s about not making middle aged women invisible.

Really interesting insight phlossie. My relatively small involvement with open water swimming has absolutely demonstrated that it's really gaining popularity amongst women in the 40+ demographic, and that the benefits for this group are huge and wide-ranging. It's a real shame the BBC didn't use an image of one of the women swimmers in your group, to draw the attention of women who might be thinking of taking it up.

Echoing other posters strongmummy. I don't think 'attractive women generate more attention' is an argument-winning point on a feminist discussion board. It's kind of the starting place for discussion rather than the end one.

phlossie
How nice to hear from someone who was actually there.
Your perspective gives us a better insight.

The editors add in what they think people want to see.
They often get it wrong yet they remain unperturbed by this.

I'm middle aged and my body shape is similar to hers. Among my friendship group of middle aged women, many are, although some aren't.
My BMI is in the normal range.
And yet I get told I'm skinny all the time, online and in real life.
Body shaming works both ways - sometime people imply I have an eating disorder (I don't).
People can't see my chubby thighs with clothes on

'It’s not about sex or sexuality. Women’s features in general are softer, smaller and there’s obviously the maternal factor.'

🤣🤣🤣

Her body shape is normal, not skinny, but our view of what is normal has become twisted by the normalisation of obesity.

Even Elizabeth I was noted for retaining the body of a virgin ie not the normal body type for a middle aged female even at that time; it is not about obesity but the changes that childbearing and menopause make to the body and the failure to acknowledge that.

Yes young attractive women are used to advertise everything because of the maternal factor 😁

That's so funny.

I mean that whole quote is just ridiculous!

I also like the idea that the response to the point 'it's odd that some people claim that women's bodies are objectively better to look at' is 'well I think they are so it's true'.

Some people maybe don't know what objective Vs subjective means.

This slagging off of men's bodies while getting worked up about imaginary criticism of women's bodies is peculiar as well.

All in all a lot of cobblers being posted.

I notice this all the time, especially in the popular science press that I often read for work

Of course any one image of a young, perfect-bodied woman in revealing outfit could be genuinely what the story is about and what someone really looks like - no one is suggesting removing all such images when they are relevant.

The point is that they are used all the time as decoration, when they are not relevant, and they are used more than corresponding images of men, different ages and body shapes, and fully dressed women.

The reason I hate is it because it's like saying "The readership that matters is the straight sexually appreciative male and he has to be kept titillated with pics of half dressed attractive women on a regular basis." To female readers it's the message that that's what women are for. Even when the content has nothing to do with sex or attraction. It's just anything. Obviously it's well known in advertising but also common in news and other journalism.

I have also seen attempts to not be like this though - where they will use older people and different looks, and not always show women in fewer clothes than man. Specsavers is one example.

@FrogsFrogs but the irony is you’re claiming to be pro woman/concerned about objectification , but all you’re doing is belittling a young attractive woman !!!! You don’t actually care that this woman is being “objectified”; you’re just upset that an attractive woman is being used!!!! As I’ve said before, if one of the swimmers was going to be used it would have most likely have been the best looking. Fact! Therefore this debate is not about the objectification of women. Stop kidding yourselves. It’s about the fact that older/less attractive people (in this case a woman) are not used enough to advertise/seen in the media. I can get behind that. What I can’t bear is hypocrisy.

@deydododatdodontdeydo exactly right. I’m 43 and I have a good body. Part genetics/part the fact I train a lot. The difference I suppose is that people who are larger are not seen as much in the media. Thankfully this is changing. What I find ridiculous about this debate is that it’s being disguised as a concern about objectification of the person in the photo. It isn’t at all about that.

As I’ve said before, if one of the swimmers was going to be used it would have most likely have been the best looking. Fact! Therefore this debate is not about the objectification of women.

Umm that is exactly what that proves.

if one of the swimmers was going to be used it would have most likely have been the best looking.

Would it have been the best looking man, or the best looking woman, do you think?

What I find ridiculous about this debate is that it’s being disguised as a concern about objectification of the person in the photo. It isn’t at all about that

No, it's not about concern for her, not her personally. It's about the portrayal of women in the media through the lens of the male gaze which has become so normalised that some women don't even see it! Or, they do but justify it by saying "but I'm heterosexual and I'd rather look at an attractive woman". That's serious cultural conditioning, it creates a Pavlovan response!

There was no Earthly reason to illustrate that article with a photo of a woman who had nothing to do with the article. Most people would prefer to see a life-affirming pic of one of the actual wild swimmers.

Some person chose to illustrate it with the generic atteactive female swimmer photo. Why?

Stop kidding yourselves. It’s about the fact that older/less attractive people (in this case a woman) are not used enough to advertise/seen in the media. I can get behind that. What I can’t bear is hypocrisy.

Not a bit of it. My body type (slim, curvy hourglass) is way more sexualised and genetically rare than the woman photographed and I bristled. Not from jealousy.

I have people constantly appraise my proportions and bring up my figure. That they feel emboldened to do this is precisely because of the cultural portrayal of women, seen through the male gaze and by extension, society's gaze. Pavlov's dog response, innit!

I have been reading about the male gaze.
I used to think it only applied to art, films and adverts and stuff but now I see it applies to me and how I see myself, my sexuality and how I express it. This does not come just from me but from the world around me, how I reflect it and what rewards I get given for it.

I agree she is not super thin .
Why am I using super?
The swimsuit looks wet too . She just looks fine . It is not objectifying or tantalising.

I had not RTFT.
People come in all shapes, sizes , ages .
Some are attractive, some or not .
If they had photos of the ACTUAL swimmers they were writing about, they SHOULD have used them.

As regards the supposed invisibility of middle-aged women, I think mine has started to work, in that as I cross the road by my uni, loads of cyclists are obviously incapable of seeing me, and sail past. Which now means I have become mad shouty woman, as I exclaim 'RED LIGHT' to each one..............

"If they had photos of the ACTUAL swimmers they were writing about, they SHOULD have used them."

In a nut shell!

The BBC used to be pretty bad when it came to stock photos -- for example, articles on gay stuff always had a stock photo of two men holding hands. Okay, I understand that a photo of two women holding hands would not necessarily trigger non-straight as fast as two men doing so, but meant that such general gay articles tending to have no photos of lesbians at all, Hence the old 'gay' just taken to be shorthand for gay men that we are all so used to. As regards the male gaze, I found todays article on the gay male gaze very sad, with gay men now beginning to follow women down the body image issues route..............