Dublin couple jailed for facilitating the FGM of their 21 month old

[Lordfrontpaw]

Good. Not long enough if you ask me.

www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-51268169?__twitter_impression=true

Thankfully they actually got off their arses and went to A&E. She could have bled to death.

However - will parents in this situation now not bother going to A&E though? Will they just go back to the butcher and ask for some medicine and hope for the best?

Fell on a toy ffs.

www.thejournal.ie/trinity-college-unfairly-dismissed-lecturer-at-centre-of-controversial-prime-time-comments-on-fgm-4603839-Apr2019/

This creep has been given a platform for years in Ireland, airing his views on how we should accommodate people who want to ban their children from learning music and drama or to segregate boys and girls for religious reasons. He refused to condemn Osama bin Laden or the London Tube bombers. He realised he went too far with his FGM comments and the apology is hollow. The university he taught in til recently is one which cancelled a recent talk by Maryam Namazie because she was too controversial.

We're making the same stupid mistakes as everyone else, in short, a generation or two behind, and failing to protect women and children from immigrant communities for fear of being called racist. At least that conviction is something.

My two cents.

FGM is one of the most disgusting crimes I can think of. I am aware of the social and societal pressures that some of these parents feel, but I stand by that point. The parents have shown no remorse. in this instance I think the role of incarceration should be clear; to protect the child. A minimum custodial sentence of 18 years would keep those "parents" away from the child until they are an adult. I wasn't hugely popular at our FGM awareness training when I was a teacher.

If anyone really wants, I can regale them with some of the FGM awareness training I received as a teacher. Maybe it will help to put things "into context", maybe not. Its pretty depressing either way.

It's a shit situation which I don't think prison solves

The UK has tried tip toeing round this for years. France took a much harder line and has been more successful at combating FGM.

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/feb/10/france-tough-stance-female-genital-mutilation-fgm

Is there a way to engage community leaders, the immams, get more women from the community trained as health visitors and doctors and nurses, get it into schools? Are there countries successfully reducing it in innovative ways?

You know sometimes it just has to be said your cultural traditions are barbaric and unacceptable. The British in India took a hard line on sutee.

The French former justice minister Rachida Dati summed up France's attitude, saying: "This mutilation has no foundation in any religion, philosophy, culture or sociology. It is a serious and violent abuse of a female. It cannot be justified in any way. FGM is a crime."

The French former justice minister Rachida Dati summed up France's attitude, saying: "This mutilation has no foundation in any religion, philosophy, culture or sociology. It is a serious and violent abuse of a female. It cannot be justified in any way. FGM is a crime."

A thousand times this.

in this instance I think the role of incarceration should be clear; to protect the child

The harm to this girl has sadly already been done. All that can be done is to try and minimise further harm, and I think that has to take into account whether being removed from her parents is necessarily in a child's best interests. In some cases it may well be, but I'm prepared to accept that that may not always be the case.

For me the best interests of an individual child are more important than using custodial sentences as a deterrent. In any event, I think education and community engagement is more likely to affect change than threats of punishment.

Deterrence is a key part of sentencing. The justice system is about society not just individuals. Heavy sentences shouldn't be arbitrary but a clear message about how abominable this practice is in this society needs to be sent.
If the parents are prepared to flout the law on this, what comes down the line - forced marriage?

For me the best interests of an individual child are more important than using custodial sentences as a deterrent

These parents have shown they have not the remotest idea of what is in their child's interest. They haven't even managed to clear the very low hurdle of don't deliberately do harm.

Deterrence is a key part of sentencing. The justice system is about society not just individuals.

I think that raises broader questions about what you think the purpose of punishment in the criminal justice system should be.

I personally disagree that deterrence should form a key part of sentencing. There's little evidence that it's effective and the morality concerns me.

Of course a thorough assessment of risk to the child would have to be carried out, and in many cases removal may well be in the child's best interests. But I do think the child's best interests needs to be a key consideration.

I can see that a judge could think, 'the only utterly dreadful, abusive thing they will likely ever do has been done so if I jail them all I do is put a child in care who has mostly loving parents and traumarise her further'.

Think about what FGM is. I would find it more likely that someone who could do something so violent, bloody, painful and terrifying to a child has broken a psychological barrier. The next violation would be easier.

And the people carrying out the mutilation are very unlikely to have the scan test idea of medicine or hygiene - they are the equivalent of modern day back street abortionists.

Scan test - scantest.

Oh god this is horrific - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51332011?ocid=socialflow_twitter

Why is so much thrown at gender politics while this sex based abuse continues? This is the issue that causes deaths - and I mean real actual deaths and physical harm, not hurt feelings.