Dublin couple jailed for facilitating the FGM of their 21 month old

[Lordfrontpaw]

Good. Not long enough if you ask me.

www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-51268169?__twitter_impression=true

It is at least good to see that prosecutions are finally beginning to be made under these laws. I believe this is the first conviction for FGM in Ireland.

And yet the parents didn’t appear to be sorry.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51268169

About time. How many jailed here?

At last !

Sadly not many on the UK - the first jailing was only last Feb, even though thousands of cases are reported every year.

so both will be out within 2 years when the court could have imposed up to 14 years (7 years)

Good that there was a prosecution but I wish the sentencing could be explained.

I can see that a judge could think, 'the only utterly dreadful, abusive thing they will likely ever do has been done so if I jail them all I do is put a child in care who has mostly loving parents and traumarise her further'.

The only thing a jail term is for in this case is punishment and deterrent to others, which as a society we have moved away from to rehabilitation and individual crime prevention.

Anger doesn't cover the feelings towards these parents who mutilated their toddler. But we need far more intelligent, culturally based education than anything else.

Not long enough

Mrsterrypratchett.
This has been illegal for several years and people are still causing absolute trauma to their children. They have all the knowledge around them to know this is not correct and yet they have still put their poor child through torture. No- this was the least that should have happened.

They're a fucking disgrace. More judges need to take the 'deterrent' mode when sentencing, it will help deter these disgusting parents in the long run.

But we need far more intelligent, culturally based education than anything else

We have had that approach for decades. There is no excuse whatsoever for anyone living in Ireland or the UK not to know this is illegal, immoral and utterly repugnant to Irish and British culture.

I hope the child is somewhere safe now and they don’t get her back. It didn’t say if there were other children in the family. Some people really don’t deserve to have children.

I heard this on RTE news. The report said there are two other children in the family, and all three are now being cared for by an aunt.

I'm glad this has resulted in a prosecution.

I hope the child is somewhere safe now and they don’t get her back.

The trauma of being permanently removed from parental care, regardless of how shot that care is, is enormous. It's good to hear she's with family. But in some cases this would be a removal to care, not family. And care is a feminist issue as well considering the epidemic levels of sexual abuse girls in care suffer.

I'm not justifying FGM BTW. I'm just saying it's a horrible trauma compounded by a horrible trauma.

No forced adoption in Ireland though. That poor little girl.

Good, but without a substantial sentence the message that you cannot do this to your children isn't going to be taken on board.

I really get your points MrsTerryPratchett and I feel awful for the child who's been permanently harmed by her parents choices, and the question now of 'would she be further harmed to be permanently removed from her parents'.

My struggle or conflict is when that child grows up and realises what her parents have done to her, how will she feel?

Don't we always remove children from abusive situations for safeguarding?

And given that the article states
"She said the couple had shown a lack of remorse and had not provided any insight into what had occurred."

If this child is returned to her parents, and is nurtured to believe FGM is normal and healthy, will she perpetuate, or be coerced in to perpetuating, the abuse on any female children she may go on to have?

If education hasn't worked, and threat of sanctions haven't worked, how do we break the cycle?

But then I read your posts, specifically I can see that a judge could think, 'the only utterly dreadful, abusive thing they will likely ever do has been done so if I jail them all I do is put a child in care who has mostly loving parents and traumarise her further'.

I'm left feeling like do I / society have the right to remove children from parents for 'their best interests' in these kinds of cases, and where does this end?

Yes, my arse has splinters.

"She said the couple had shown a lack of remorse and had not provided any insight into what had occurred."

This is what I'd expect from loving parents who genuinely think they did the right thing, no matter how awful the act is.

Believe me I have issues with how to feel. Emotionally I think, "let them rot in prison" but them I think of a toddler who doubtless wants her mum. And will either still grow up in a family that does this (I assume the aunt may be cut) or in care, which is awful. And unlikely to be culturally appropriate so there's belonging issues twice.

It's a shit situation which I don't think prison solves.

Prison perhaps solves nothing for this little girl, but it should act as a deterrent to other parents who are considering doing this.

But a basic principle of justice is not sentencing people for other people's crimes. The deterrent effect should be a byproduct rather than the reason.

Is there a way to engage community leaders, the immams, get more women from the community trained as health visitors and doctors and nurses, get it into schools? Are there countries successfully reducing it in innovative ways?

In Kenya the men took action and rejected it (it's outlawed there now, but when does that stop anyone) and child marriages.

What loving relationship there was before they had this done to the child will have been significantly damaged by their subjecting the child to this. They're not just irrevocably mutilated her body and caused her gynecological and sexual issues for a lifetime, there will also be the trauma caused to her brain. Plenty of women have shared testimony on how far into life that damage continues.

I know the dire outcomes for children in care, it should always be a last resort, but it's hard to think of much worse harm they could have done to her.

If they are willing to do this - then what about the 'little things'? Can she decide what clothes she wears, have her hair cut, decide what subjects at school, or who she is friends with, or who she dates or marries? The parents have treated her as if she belongs to them.

How can this child ever trust them or have faith in them? They have physically damager her for life and they don't care one jot. They will never 'get' that what they did was wrong.

Not to mention doing it in such a way that they presented at A&E with the child still bleeding in a way confirmed as life threatening, and claimed she 'fell on a toy'.

Words fail.