There is reddit/GenderCritical, too

[GrinitchSpinach]

I am firmly in the camp of staying on MN as long as we are allowed to speak here.

That said, it is worth connecting in other spaces, too. I know Spinster has seen a boom in membership over the past two days. I just wanted to point out that the subreddit GenderCritical (not the one with the underscore in the middle; I’m not sure why that exists) is an explicitly radical feminist space with moderators who work actively to prevent derailment of conversation by male people.

It has a very different feel from MN, partly because of the Reddit format, which I don’t love, and partly because the users seem to skew much younger, more American (though an interesting international minority exists), and I think proportionally more lesbian than MN.

They have their own rules there, especially regarding links, which I find difficult to keep track of, but... It’s worth a lurk, at least, for women who are frustrated right now.

I read there, and admire many of the posters, but I wouldn't call it mother-friendly. Which is fine, but it's probably not the place for a straight white middle aged mum to post.

I wouldn't call it mother-friendly.

Yeah, agreed on that. One reason I’ve usually felt more comfortable here. But outright hostility to mothers is not widespread, and usually downvoted quite a bit.

So many young women post there, looking for wider perspective. I think the mums (and other women) of MN could actually contribute a lot there, if so inclined.

IMO the Mumsnet FWR forum is superior when it comes to conversation format. Granted, if Mumsnet were no longer an option I'd probably go back to posting there, but it's been awhile since I've checked it out. Reddit in general isn't my favorite site, so it's not that the GC subreddit is worse than the site as a whole.

Yes, I definitely prefer the slightly old-school messageboard format here. I find it much easier to keep track of valuable threads this way.

To be fair, there's also a GC Discord channel which is better (and more private) than the subreddit, but you do need a fairly lengthy posting history on r/GenderCritical in order to apply. Gives you the opportunity for actual voice chat, though.

I occasionally glance at the GenderCritical subreddit and post the odd reply.

I really like the old school format here and I'm not a radical feminist so I doubt my views would be welcome in such spaces longer-term as I'm not wedded to any ideology. The reason I like FWR is because of the variety of viewpoints, the depth and breadth of experienced posters, different political viewpoints, and so on.

I find British forums have a distinct vibe from American ones, in general, that I like.

But yes, there are alternatives out there. I shall cling on to FWR as the debates and info here is far superior to GenderCritical.
Can't comment about Spinster as I've never used it.

"I am firmly in the camp of staying on MN as long as we are allowed to speak here." - I agree, GrinitchSpinach

I would echo all the points made above and add these plus-points for Mumsnet.

Mumsnet is important because:

1. It continues to provide a "Feminism and Women's Rights" forum that supports the discussion of gender identity and sex

• despite this being one of the most contentious issues of the day and counter to the "No Debate!" line pushed throughout the Anglosphere and well beyond

1. It is public

• a free, open resource for anyone on the internet

1. It has "permanence"

• at least not as ephemeral as an unrecorded public meeting

1. It has influence

• journalists, including those writing for the highest circulation newspapers in the UK and working in other media "lurk" here, cite opinions voiced here, quote members and post screenshots

1. It is respected

• politicians think it worth their time and effort to risk engaging in Webchats where they submit to being grilled and held to account as rigorously as by a Parliamentary Select Committee, Public Inquiry or Court of Law

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www.mumsnet.com/info/advertising

Mumsnet in numbers

8 million user posts per year
1.2 billion page views per year
23 million visits per month
10 million unique users per month
7.22 minutes average dwell time
75% of users in full-time or part-time employment
78% of users are aged between 26-45
91% of users have children

------

Little wonder that a small but obsessively dedicated internet army of "Gender Identity Troops" spends so much time alternately:

• defaming Mumsnet (as if it consisted of nothing but the FWR Board) in order to try to drive away advertising income and deter people from visiting the site

• angling to get key Gender Critical members (including trans people) banned, by reporting them for trivial or pedantic infractions of the Rules

• disrupting and trolling threads to render them useless, get them deleted or drive away people who want to engage in sensible conversation.

------

Spinster, Reddit etc. definitely have their uses. "MeWe" is another place where the Gender Critical who have been banned from Twitter and/or Mumsnet meet.

There are also "secret groups" all over the internet where people think they can safely have private conversations but too often they are infiltrated, conversations are screen-shot and posted in public on social media, people are doxxed and ridiculed or threatened.

It is significant that so many GC women dare not risk revealing their identities when contributing to discussions about gender identity and sex on the internet. Not because they are saying anything remotely offensive but because to express a Gender Critical opinion could result in very real threats their livelihoods, their personal safety or the safety of their families and children.

Or a visit from the Police and a "non-criminal criminal record" for "transphobic hate speech" however far-fetched the allegation:

deadinteresting.blogspot.com/2018/01/death-doesnt-misgender-you-die-as-you.html

Mumsnet could feel a lot safer. The LangCleg banning is just the latest in a long line of women screaming into the void about safeguarding children, on a Parenting Site, and being choked off and then banned. I can imagine her frustration, trying to get through to the Moderators.

I also very much appreciate @JustineMumsnet holding firm on permitting debate. It feels like crumbs from the table but at the same time thankfully benefiting from a brave stand against censorship. well in line with the mission of Mumsnet to support and inform parents.

It would be even better if Mumsnet felt able to face up to these bullies and chancers stalking Mumsnet, snipers picking off FWR posters one by one. In the meantime, it is up to us to make the most of a public platform with influence that is denied to women elsewhere in the world.

Whoa Moles those numbers are impressive!

I smash the dwell time

8 million user posts per year
1.2 billion page views per year
23 million visits per month
10 million unique users per month
7.22 minutes average dwell time
75% of users in full-time or part-time employment
78% of users are aged between 26-45
91% of users have children

Thanks for the very useful summary

Great post, MoleSmokes.

I agree, Mumsnet is really important for reaching women. I hope as many feminists as possible stay.

I used to lurk on reddit gendercritical too and used to enjoy reading the discussions. I stopped ages ago because they changed the format and started having different sections for different topics and the amount of talk declined (or seemed to). I have heard that more people have joined recently, so it might be worth checking out again.

I'm staying, not going anywhere despite certain questionable choices* < cough cough banning Lang* >. Won't be browbeaten either.

Let's keep cross-pollinating, I say!

Thanks for the heads up on this OP, have just popped by to see what it was like. It's seems pretty honest and you can swear (reasons why I was drawn to MN)

I might join and 'cross-pollinate' as Durgasarrow suggests.

I never name change here anyway so it will be a chance to think up a new username.

keep cross-pollinating

Yes!

Women in different countries have much to teach and learn from each other. I read with particular interest when South Korean and certain African and Middle Eastern women post.

Me, too! And there are heroines everywhere, from Selina Soule to Chimimanda Ngozie Adichie to JK Rowling.

Me, too! And there are heroines everywhere, from Selina Soule to Chimimanda Ngozie Adichie to JK Rowling

This is a quote from Chimimanda Ngozie Adichie:
“From the very beginning, I think it’s been quite clear that there’s no way I could possibly say that trans women are not women. It’s the sort of thing to me that’s obvious, so I start from that obvious premise. Of course they are women but in talking about feminism and gender and all of that, it’s important for us to acknowledge the differences in experence of gender. That’s really what my point is.”

That's a quote from an article in 2017. Has she changed her position?

That's some quote from Chimimanda Ngozie Adichie

I've lurked on r/GC since it began and have read some good discussion. I've never made an account though partly because I don't especially like reddit as a format and partly because it seem to skew American and as others have said perhaps younger/child free. Nothing wrong that in general but other places suit me better.

I read there, and admire many of the posters, but I wouldn't call it mother-friendly. Which is fine, but it's probably not the place for a straight white middle aged mum to post.

Just to say I post there regularly and I am (like most of you) a UK based mother. I prefer the more relaxed approach to speech there and don't feel like I am policing my posts as much. I also like the range of feminist topics. So don't be put off by 'not mother friendly' because some of us are mums

That said, I'm thinking I should post here more for the reasons stated by others but also because I have used MN for years and FWR in particular before this issue became so prevalent. FWR has changed in that time.

If there became a need for an alternative to MN I would like it to be as similar to MN as possible. This "democratic" type of forum where there is no upvote or downvote, very text-based (no fancy avatars, etc) and you can write very long posts. It creates better discussion and focus. And should be British and aimed at mothers/grown women as well.

I share your format preferences, Champagne. I find MN's format much easier to read and more conducive to civilized conversation (just talking about the format here, not the special rules). It's also easier to keep track of older threads I want to find again or update and thereby bump to the top.

Reddit doesn't work that way, which leads to lots of duplicate threads on the same issue and a kind of cutting off of the conversation as posts drift down the "hot" list.

I’m as gender critical as you can get. In my opinion as interesting as the sub is they are quit to ban. One comment that some didn’t agree with (not relating to gender) and I’ve never been able to post since.