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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

5 years old: never seen a girl with short hair

126 replies

RicketyClickety · 21/01/2020 18:08

I found out yesterday that my daughter has never (knowingly) seen a girl with "boyish" hair, in real life or fiction. We were reading a poem about a tomboy with an accompanying illustration of a short-haired girl playing football, and my daughter asked me a few times if it was a boy, and then was asking me to explain how the character could have boy's hair if she was a girl, and why the character had hair like that. She was confused but happily fascinated.

She knows all about girl vs boy bodies. But in day-to-day life she also tells girls of her age apart from boys almost exclusively by their hair styles.

It made me realise that none of the girls at her nursery, clubs or school have boyish hair. None of her books have girls that look like that. Or any of the television she watches. Or Disney films. Or music videos.

She doesn't get much screentime though so there might be some very mainstream young kids TV that has tomboys on. Maybe I'm missing the obvious illustrated books. Or has UK media really become so homogenous in how girls are presented that most kids are reaching five without ever seeing girls of their own age with short hair?

OP posts:
MarcyFromCleveland · 22/01/2020 21:17

Haven’t read the whole thread but I’ve noticed this too.
Dd is 17, when she was at school long hair was just below the shoulders. Some girls had short hair, but not many.
Now all the girls in my youngest son’s primary school have long hair, properly long, middle of the back at least. Shoulder length hair is considered short.

Amongst parents, those my sort of age (40s) have a mix of long and short hair. Younger mums all have long hair.

Some time over the last 5-10 years gender stereotypes have become stricter when it comes to hair and dressing. It’s so disappointing, you’d think by now things would be better, not worse.

aliasundercover · 22/01/2020 21:54

Some time over the last 5-10 years gender stereotypes have become stricter when it comes to hair and dressing
I agree. I remember young girls having short bobs and pixie cuts, boys with any tail - both seem to be rarer now.
I agree about adults too - all the young women I know have long hair. Female athletes all seem to have long hair that is tied back when they play. And so many young men have beards now, that was very unusual when I was young.

TeiTetua · 23/01/2020 00:51

Children can make you scream with their assumptions about how people ought to behave. I heard about a man who had a senior position working for Margaret Thatcher when she was prime minister. His young daughter asked him, "Daddy, is your job the most important job?" And he said, "Well no dear, Mrs Thatcher has the most important job." And the kid thought for a moment and then said, "Well then, is your job the most important man's job?"

squeekums · 23/01/2020 04:33

@chinateapot I hope your dd is doing well. Cancer sucks any time but in kids it's just wrong.

sashh · 23/01/2020 05:37

Why do most girls and young women have long hair now? It seems to me it changed in the late 90s. When my daughter was little in the early 90s it wasn't common for girls to have short hair but it wasn't unknown. My impression is it changed round about 2000 - advent of straighteners, heavy marketing?

I think a combination of things, in the 1980s I got a hairdryer as my birthday present from my parents. And it was considered a 'big' present.

Now you can pick up a hairdryer in the supermarket.

Most people have a shower and can wash hair daily.

Sadly all women on TV seemed to grow long hair. In the first series of 'Castle' Stana Katic hd shortish hair, by the final series she had the 'just walked out of a salon' long wavy hair that you see everywhere.

I also had dolls with short hair in the 1970s.

There is also cost. I live on a council estate with varying levels of poverty. The cheapest thing to do is grow hair, the second is to borrow the clippers (if you don't have your own) so most boys have very short hair and most girls long.

chinateapot

I'm glad your dd got a wig (obviously I would be happier if no child had cancer) I've donated my hair a couple of times.

I did notice last time I was going to donate and they asked that if you were growing hair for the purpose of donation then could you grow it to a certain length (I can't remember how long) so I grew it for another 12 months.

TheKrakening3 · 23/01/2020 05:59

DD2 is five and has short hair. There is not a single girl in her class or a girl in our circle of friends who has short hair. She is constantly asked whether she is a boy or a girl by other children who are bewildered by a girl having short hair.

When I was a child I had short hair. I was never asked if I was a boy or a girl because at least a quarter of the other girls had short hair and no-one thought anything of a girl having short hair. How times a have changed.

DD1 had short hair till she was six then asked to grow it. I am sure DD2 will be asking the same too. It’s a pity as short haircuts on girls look fabulous (and save me so much time in the morning!)

In many ways, gender stereotypes about appearances have become so much more rigid for girls in recent years. Not so for boys- no-one blinks at a boy with long hair anymore.

metalkprettyoneday · 23/01/2020 06:18

DD8 had a cute pixie cut for about 18 months but is now growing it out. She really suited it and I admit I was happy after dealing with her knotty long hair. She’s pretty confident and had always said boys can like pink. girls can like blue etc when kids were being rigid. She didn’t mind when little kids, younger than her asked ‘ why are you wearing a dress?” Etc. It was adults, usually working in shops. They’d say “ what a good boy helping mum” and “ thanks mate” “ Does he want a lollipop “ She was often wearing a top with flowers and unicorns on but it kept upsetting her.
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I was watching old TOTP from the 80’s and noticed how many short styles there were .

bluebluezoo · 23/01/2020 07:30

Etc. It was adults, usually working in shops

Oh shops were the worst. “Helpful” shop assistants coming over to redirect to the correct aisles. At the till she’s often be told “that one’s for boys, we have it in pink, go and swap” or vice versa depending on her hair length. Even random adults would comment.

TulipsTulipsTulips · 23/01/2020 07:43

My mum recently commented that all girls seem to have long hair these days, and that it was different when they were young. My DD5 likes her hair to be at least down to her shoulders so she wear it in a plat like Elsa. I can't get too worked up about it, although I loved it in a short bob.

FannyCann · 23/01/2020 07:58

Just plopping in with some photos from the very hot summer of 1937.
Ribs. That's another thing you don't see so much these days!
I would imagine they were children from the poorer side of life and those pudding basin bobs were easy to manage in the days of the dreaded nit nurse. I think they look sweet though. And still easy to spot the girls!

MyuMe · 23/01/2020 08:01

Styles change too.

That "boyish" hair cut women used to get in the 80s / 90s isn't really a thing anymore.

So lots of children won't have seen an adult female with very short hair either.

daisypond · 23/01/2020 08:22

I was born in the 60s and had very short hair as a child - the era of Twiggy etc. At primary in the 70s I grew it longer, perhaps to shoulder length. Secondary school in the 80s - short hair was in again, or a bit longer permed hair. Look at women on pop music videos. Long hair would be seen as very childish. Enid Blyton in one of the Mallory Towers books describes dim, spoilt and pampered Gwendolen with long hair that she had to brush 100 times, while all the others had short bobs.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 23/01/2020 08:22

In many ways, gender stereotypes about appearances have become so much more rigid for girls in recent years. Not so for boys- no-one blinks at a boy with long hair anymore.

It's odd, isn't it? On the evidence of this thread, any child with short hair is immediately identified as male by most adults and children. Is the reverse also true - are boys identified as female if they have long hair, regardless of what they're wearing?

deydododatdodontdeydo · 23/01/2020 08:30

Is the reverse also true - are boys identified as female if they have long hair, regardless of what they're wearing?

Yes. DS has long hair and gets addressed as a girl all the time. He's 13 and only ever wears trousers and t shirt.

Teateaandmoretea · 23/01/2020 08:34

It's not at all unusual for little girls to have long hair - part of being a little really if they are happy with it.

Well obviously not as most of them do. Having had 2 dds though I am baffled by them being happy with it - both of mine hated having it brushed or washed when they were tiny it was a total nightmare. They were much happier with it shorter and more manageable. Dd1 has grown here now, but dd2 still has a pixie cut and it really suits her. She had it shorter at one point but the novelty of being mistaken for a boy all the time wore off after a bit.

I agree with you OP, it's so weird that everyone expects girls to have long hair.

thinkfast · 23/01/2020 09:18

Wow. Where do you all live? I have a DS in year 3 and a DD in reception. There are some girls with short hair and some boys with long hair in both of their classes.

MoleSmokes · 23/01/2020 10:36

There are lots of old school photos on the internet.

Thinking back to Primary School, which would have been the early 1960's in the UK for me, there was very little difference in length between boys and girls hair. This was in the dying days of Brylcreme and the boys often had their hair slicked down (or with spit!) whereas the girls might run to a plain hair grip if their fringes were growing out.

I can only remember a couple of girls in Primary School whose hair was shoulder length or longer. One was very "dolled up" with her hair in bunches with ribbons and the other other was very unkempt. Nobody wanted to share a desk with her because the poor girl stank to high heaven. One was a "little princess" and the other was poorly clad and sadly neglected. Long hair was a sign of the extremes of parenting rather than the norm.

I dug out a group photo from my primary school which confirms my memory. Other school photos on the internet show much the same pattern: boys with short hair, most girls with the same length or very slightly longer hair and one or two girls with hair shoulder length or longer.

Photos on the internet show a change for primary school children in the 70's, with few boys having hair as short as in the 50's and 60's and more girls having longer hair.

One of the reasons for long hair persisting as a fashion must be the availability of hair conditioner. Another would be the availability of kinder, more attractive, ways to tie up your hair than rubber bands and knotted "knicker elastic". Before hair conditioner there was only shampoo or soap and, if you were lucky, having your hair smothered in raw egg or rinsed in lemon juice, vinegar or beer as "conditioner".

Short hair was much less painful than the torture of tangles being combed out and then having your hair dragged tight through a rubber band and pulled out by the roots when you let your hair down. If young girls had long hair it was not usually their choice.

You can also tell from looking at photos from the 50's and 60's that most primary school age children had their hair cut at home. The boys don't look quite as bad as the girls and my brother, who is two years younger than me, was taken to have his hair cut at the barber long before I was treated to a trip to the hair dresser. By the look of those old photos on the internet, I would guess that that was the usual way of things.

Two friends in Junior School had hair in long plaits down to their waists because their mothers would not let them cut their hair. As soon they felt able to defy their mothers, in their late teens, they had their hair cut in a bob. There were more girls with shoulder length hair in Secondary School but not many had their hair any longer than that.

Going back to Primary School, in the 50's and 60's school clothes were very gendered even if there was no uniform, so it was not difficult to tell girls from boys. Hair length was not the distinguishing feature. Out of school, it was not uncommon for girls to wear trousers out playing. I do not recall anyone ever mistaking a girl with short hair and wearing trousers for a boy.

In most cases there might have been subtle or more obvious clues in the clothing that gave the game away: girl's blouses often had obviously or slightly different collars to boy's shirts ("Peter Pan" style collars were rare for boys by then); buttons on girls' clothes might be "fancy" where boys' would be plain; etc.

Something that struck me looking at school photos from that time, when children are not in uniform, is that the girls are often wearing lighter-coloured clothes than the boys. The photos are black and white but it is obvious that more girls are wearing pastel or pale colours and more boys are wearing dark colours. It is impossible to tell how many are wearing bright, deep colours.

The only time I was mistaken for a boy was when I was about ten or eleven, had a "boy haircut" (an "Eton Crop") and was wearing shorts on holiday in Spain. Spanish girls were dressed much more traditionally at that time and long hair was the absolutely the norm so the mistake was understandable.

I remember reading KatieAlcock's fascinating article mentioned earlier:
medium.com/@katieja/young-children-reality-sex-and-gender-3421f4f165f1

Those children are younger, pre-school, but if older children are now having difficulty distinguishing girls from boys, based on expectations about hair length as a signifier, why is that?

Has hair length become so much more salient that it over-rides other clues? Does a Primary School age girl with short hair need to go all-out for uber-Pink with girly logos and images on clothing to be perceived as a girl - or would even that not be enough?

Is the confusion the result of it being drummed into them at school, in children's TV, etc. that the girl-boy distinction is not stable, that the sexes can flip so they either cannot trust their first impressions or are unable to form a clear first impression, thrown off course by hair length?

Androgyny seems to have been lost as a sexed option and does not seem to be on their RADAR yet as a "non-binary" interpretation. So is there is a complete pendulum swing between gender stereotypes, with hair-length being the clincher?

In the days when it was normal for young boys to have long hair and wear dresses (mid to late 19th century?) their clothing was still styled slightly differently to girls'. If colour was used to signify sex it was pink for boys and pale blue for girls so there were still some clues. Not hair though.

It is all cultural of course - but was there ever a time when school-age children in the UK, as mentioned in some of the posts here, had problems determining the sex of other children the same age? Not a rhetorical question - and I am not sure how we would know, unless it cropped up in literature maybe?

sammybins · 24/01/2020 17:05

short haired woman here. Teenager in the 1990's. Some girls at school opted for short hair -- Kylie Minogue had a very short crop, mid-nighties, but I'd say most girls I grew up with still had longish hair (past their shoulders) and spent lots of time, effort and money making it glossy and straight.

In my personal experience, it's not easy to be a woman and have short hair. There's lots of hostility around it, and it's definitely got worse in the last few years. I've been spat at in the street for this hair. Literally spat at. Called dyke, and lezzer. To my face. Not quietly muttered behind hands, but full frontal. Had one young person scream in my face, 'eeewww', and tell me that I 'look like a man'.

Note that most of this 'hostility' (homophobia?) comes from, you guessed it... young women.

Now when people say to me, 'ew, look at your hair', I say, 'oh don't you like it? I'm modelling it on your Ma's quim'.

and then I hot foot it outta there, while their tiny minds whirr at what I've just said.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 24/01/2020 17:13

One of the big advantages of being an older woman, and therefore invisible, is that nobody bats an eyelid at my hair, which is rarely longer than shoulder length.

missyB1 · 24/01/2020 17:32

I’ve had short hair since I was 11 years old which was 1979, I was cool in the 80s with my short spiky crop 😁
I’ve never grown it since, but I have very thick strong hair.
53 years old now with a pixie cut, I don’t know any other women who have hair as short as mine.
Oh and I work in a school all the girls have long hair.

bonbonours · 24/01/2020 17:38

My kids are older but at the age of 10-12 I think my daughter was very very unusual amongst her peers for having short hair.
My friend's 4 year old son has long hair (and a beautiful face) and people always think he is a girl, (including a boy who insisted he was his 'girlfriend' - his name is also gender neutral). Once he pulled his pants down at school to prove he was a boy lol.

Jaxhog · 24/01/2020 17:43

It just goes to show how gendered our societies still are!

doritosdip · 25/01/2020 16:06

The news series of The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina is out and made me think of this thread.

Obviously not suitable for a 5 yr old but Very cute hair

5 years old: never seen a girl with short hair
NearlyGranny · 25/01/2020 17:12

My DD2 wore her hair in a cute Piccadilly bob in the '90s. She hated hairwashing and brushing so it kept everyone happy. Nobody took her for a boy except once when wearing track pants and a big brimmed school uniform hat in Australia.

The conformity is strong in the current generation, it seems, and it can only be parental because tots don't really choose their own styles!

PregnantCat · 25/01/2020 22:23

I suspect that’s more down to parental oversight than anything else. I work with teenagers and have noticed a bit of a trend for short, boyish cuts in young women.