Douglas Murray on denunciations and Lawrence Fox

[BovaryX]

Douglas Murray takes aim at the cancel culture and denunciation tactics at the heart of # no debate. Those who try to control and police what people think and say have dominated public discourse to its detriment. Many are aware of the existential threat to freedom of speech this faction represents.

Nothing that Fox said on Question Time was at all controversial. He suggested that the Labour party leader might be selected on merit and he suggested that Britain is not a racist country. Both these sentiments are held by the majority of the public. Yet so dominant have the minority-opinion pushers become that many people are persuaded that it would not just be career-damaging but socially fatal to say anything to the contrary. Even when that thing is the truth

I look around at all the women at the bottom of the heap, taking care of the kids, the elderly, jobs they can't progress in, with bad pensions

Many women choose to look after children. I did, and didn't do my professional training until they were at school. I don't regret that at all...but it has had consequences. Before that, I was a single parent at 19 years old...I could have chosen differently.......but life takes us all in different directions......and there are consequences for all of our choices......I could have taken a more career oriented path earlier on.....but I didn't. Same goes for men too.

Above and beyond the existence of equal legal rights enshrined and protected in law...what are we to do? We act and and make choices according to our circumstances and the options available to us at any time, and we act in line with our values.

And many women (as you presumably know) get left holding the baby, or don't have the wherewithal for "professional qualifications". Choice isn't made in a vacuum. Women are disproportionately poor and disproportionately put upon. That's not all choice, I just can't believe that.

There are a lot of men who don't get the plum job as head of dept, who don't have the right accent to fit in in many areas of life, who didn't get a great uni place, who spend their lives near the bottom of the pile having to kowtow and smile when they are disappointed or overlooked for promotion.
Certainly in some careers women and minority groups are favoured in an attempt to follow equality laws.
Those men will be getting pissed at the constant talk of women's rights. Im not saying I am too concerned as women have suffered longer. But the applause at LFs comments was loud.

There are a lot of men who don't get the plum job as head of dept, who don't have the right accent to fit in in many areas of life, who didn't get a great uni place, who spend their lives near the bottom of the pile having to kowtow and smile when they are disappointed or overlooked for promotion.

Good grief.
Yes. Yes there are. Nobody said there weren't I don't think?
And God FORBID a man might get pissed off at all the talk of women's rights because he didn't get the top job either.
That's it then. FWR, shut up shop. A man might be pissed off somewhere. 🤦

In many economies now, younger working class men are bottom of the heap in terms of economic stability, job availability, etc. That's just factual. It makes a big difference to them and it also has wider effects on the economy, and families. Its not a separate consideration from thinking about single mothers, or dads who don't contribute financially, for example. Lack of work for fathers is a big problem for families which include women and girls. Even in middle class jobs the place of women compared to men is uneven across sectors. It's not simple or straightforward.

I'm female and economically secure if not well off, and I get tired of the kind of sarcasm about being all about men, or rules of misogyny etc, when trying to root talk about society in material reality. I'm sure the people who are directly affected must find it really hard to stomach. And in the end, without that any analysis is just someone's imagination, and important things will be missed, and that will come out politically one way or another.

*Women are disproportionately poor and disproportionately put upon. That's not all choice, I just can't believe that8

Of course we al make choices within the contexts within which we live. But there's no reason, strictly speaking, that people cannot be even just a little bit 'socially mobile' should they set their intention to that.

My father was a bright grammar school boy from a working class background.....but he had to leave school at 14 to earn money to help feed his family. His ingenuity in engineering never made him wealthy, it made his company owners wealthy.........before they made hundreds of men redundant in the 1980's.......and my father had to take any job he could in order to keep a roof over our heads......

I understand what you are saying about women's traditional status and ensuing economic dependency - of course I do - but I'm not sure I'd ever call my father privileged - just because he is male, and white.

And many women (as you presumably know) get left holding the baby, or don't have the wherewithal for "professional qualifications"

But we all have the right and the option of education until at least 16.....In order to get a professional qualification I had to re-sit my A-levels P/T over several years, then apply to university when my youngest started school; and then apply for teacher training my when my next two started school......

We're never all going to be equal...it has never happened in history and it is never going to happen.......The best we can aspire to is is equal opportunities and equal civil rights.....beyond that pretty much what we do will depend on our own initiative; our own luck; desire; determination and so on.

Obviously we all operate within a specific community, in a specific time in history, and we all come from different backgrounds......but there's not much that can be done about that save for acts of positive discrimination for those that are in the right place at the right time.

Douglas Murray's latest article mentions Bret Weinstein and what happens when The Woke gain control of a campus.

@Justhadathought.
I would far rather have worked part-time but husband pushed me to take full time jobs though it was me that ended up doing most of the housework and child care. He worked very long hours, not coming home until 10 at night so I suppose he thought I should work long hours too.

I would far rather have worked part-time but husband pushed me to take full time jobs though it was me that ended up doing most of the housework and child care. He worked very long hours, not coming home until 10 at night so I suppose he thought I should work long hours too

Yes, I know that some men demand that their partners work full time......even when they have children. I now see that even though I have, in certain ways, sacrificed total economic independence, I have been fortunate in that I have been able to pretty much do as I pleased. Stay home; work part time; work full time......as suited, and as was appropriate. I imagine a lot of younger men see things quite differently.....

Wow that video. This new project by Index of Censorship is sadly needed.
www.indexoncensorship.org/2019/12/free-speech-is-for-me-class-of-2020/

MsSafina I read about the Evergreen/Bret Weinstein case in Douglas Murray’s latest book and thought it sounded too OTT to be real. A quick google turned up that video. It is really scary.

That video is chilling.
Do you want to hear the answer? NO These people are fanatics. They don't believe in freedom of speech, they believe in mob rule, intimidation and silencing anyone who doesn't submit to their bigoted, authoritarian ideology. This American export is an existential threat to freedom of speech.

Something very similar happened at Yale. There are a lots of clips online of the confrontations.

It's not about an intellectual space, says one student.
WTF?

TheRealMcKenna

That video from Yale is truly shocking. What is particularly nauseating about it is those students are amongst the most privileged 1 per cent on the planet This determination to impose an authoritarian ideology by stamping out freedom of speech? This is the 'liberal' West marching backwards at top speed.

It's often the case in these revolutionary movements where some people are speaking for all of the "oppressed" that the speakers are themselves highly privileged.

I recall our history teacher in a rubbish secondary school pointing out that many of the revolutionaries who shaped events and took charge were from the middle class rather than the working class. A good lesson to learn as a 14 year old living in a poor working class area.

History is also replete with examples of students leading the charge for authoritarianism, fully convinced that they alone knew the proper way to think, act and speak. It's a lot easier to throw away concepts like freedom of speech if you're confident you won't be the ones impacted by it.

History is also replete with examples of students leading the charge for authoritarianism, fully convinced that they alone knew the proper way to think, act and speak

It is that unwavering conviction of moral righteousness which makes these fanatics so chilling. They are not interested in ideas, or debate. They don't believe in freedom of speech. They think they occupy the moral high ground and they demonize anyone who questions them. They cannot tolerate any dissent. They want submission. History is replete with the atrocities committed by those who believed they were right.

Entitlement seeping from every pore. I would say kick the whole lot of them out of Uni, but as you can tell, daddy is paying a lot for them to play revolutionary silly beggars for a few years, so it wouldn't make much difference. Just look at the obsequious behaviour of the guy being held captive and escorted to the toilet. That tells you everything you want to know about how that works.

Just look at the obsequious behaviour of the guy being held captive and escorted to the toilet. That tells you everything you want to know about how that works.

Wasn't that the university president?

Yes. Held by the short and curlies

He seemed keen on that, though.

I watched the film about Evergreen last year and one of the things I wondered about was, what motivated that guy? Because he seemed to be enabling the whole thing quite deliberately.

Or, managing carefully people who hold power over you and can have you sacked. Same old dynamic.
A bunch of rich kids abusing their families' power and putting them lower orders In their place, (under the guise of fighting for the oppressed) and enjoying it!