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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Marcus Evans on Why He Left the Tavi

46 replies

rodgmum · 18/01/2020 08:40

Marcus Evans has written an excellent piece on Quilette outlining his concerns about the Tavistock and the gender identity issue in general.

I cannot express how grateful I am that he is willing to speak up.

quillette.com/2020/01/17/why-i-resigned-from-tavistock-trans-identified-children-need-therapy-not-just-affirmation-and-drugs/

OP posts:
HandsOffMyRights · 18/01/2020 08:46

Thanks for sharing and thanks to Marcus for speaking out.

Awning10 · 18/01/2020 08:52

Just read it - very very interesting and very very disturbing.

SisterWendyBuckett · 18/01/2020 09:00

Marcus writes very clearly and this is an excellent article, explaining so much.

I'm also very grateful that he's not afraid to tell the truth, along with Sue Evans, David Bell and Kirsty Entwistle.

Speaking out comes at considerable personal and professional cost.

PenguindreamsofDraco · 18/01/2020 09:02

Good Lord that is powerful.

NotBadConsidering · 18/01/2020 09:13

Brilliant article. So many bits to discuss but:

A number of my patients had gone through gender-reassignment surgery, and often were angry at the loss of their biological sexual functioning.

This is something I repeat over and over on here. No one wants to acknowledge that children are being rendered with no sexual function as a result of prescribing puberty blockers.

This may help explain the curious insistence by some trans women that their biologically male bodies offer them no competitive advantage in sports; or that their male bodies and sexual anatomy should not be seen as threatening to women in vulnerable spaces such as locker rooms and rape-crisis centers. Such delusions, in turn, have encouraged a sprawling academic ecosystem of self-described gender specialists

I can think of an example of who this might apply to Hmm 🚴‍♂️

Tubbytwo · 18/01/2020 09:23

What a well informed and sensible article. Sadly, the loudest and overtly violent voices will drown out all the intelligent reasoning it contains.

RicketyClickety · 18/01/2020 09:38

That's very worrying. I'm grateful that he and others from the Tavistock are willing to speak out about what is going on.

Uncompromisingwoman · 18/01/2020 10:24

A great article. There are so many insightful knowledgeable articles being published at the moment that must be helping to inform people about the horrors that are happening to children.

2Rebecca · 18/01/2020 11:34

Excellent article.

Melioration · 18/01/2020 11:36

You are right - this is a really excellent article.

The description of the perfect relationship between mother and baby and how people cope with the loss of it was interesting. It explains some of the rage we see against women.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 18/01/2020 11:39

A friend of mine is looking at these issues with her 16 year old, female born but trans identifying kid.

It's scary. There is no way of giving informed consent - the medics don't know what they are doing.

ChattyLion · 18/01/2020 12:11

Thanks for the link to that very interesting and insightful article. I really respect him and his wife Susan Evans for sticking up for the interests of their patients and their other whistleblower colleagues. Flowers

Datun · 18/01/2020 12:14

Wow, that is a stunning article. His compassion for anyone with gender dysphoria evident throughout.

And one can't help but be left with the impression that the fantastically insightful and well-informed women on this site have been nailing it, over and over.

From the reasons why young girls transition, to the rage displayed by men who are refused validation.

I don't know how many times I have been struck by renewed shock of how we have got this far. But reading that article produces a whole series of extra shocks.

There is no evidence, people know, studies are showing the harm, parents are despairing, it's just fear and intimidation that's driving the issue.

He's a brave man.

(Plus I did not know that Kenneth Zucker was awarded half a million dollars and an unreserved apology.)

BadgertheBodger · 18/01/2020 13:32

Excellent article.

I agree Datun. The amount of times my mind has been blown by the wonderful women of FWR numbers in the hundreds.

Datun · 18/01/2020 13:47

The amount of times my mind has been blown by the wonderful women of FWR numbers in the hundreds.

Same here badger. It reinforces, to me, how this is wholly a feminist issue, right down to its very core. It's all about women. And society's attitude towards them.

And the women here, have, quite effortlessly, identified the issues with an instinctive precision that is confirmed by that article.

perfectstorm · 18/01/2020 14:22

I'm so grateful to him. We need people to speak out like this. We're watching a disaster unfold in real time and yet talking about it is seen as hateful. It's surreal.

Gender dysphoria is real, of course. It's also rare. Autism especially is far from rare, and makes adolescence especially painful and challenging, for some very clear and identifiable reasons. That makes transition seem very appealing to many ASD kids and yet most won't be truly dysphoric at all. They need support, not affirmation. It's depressing and scary in equal measure.

boatyardblues · 18/01/2020 14:53

Interesting read. I hope it has been archived before it disappears in the inevitable puff of blue smoke. Articles as clear sighted and carefully argued as this one are rarely allowed to stand.

LangCleg · 18/01/2020 14:55

It's on Quillette. No danger of deletion.

And what Datun said. Reading it, how can anyone think that women should serve as public therapy for XY persons with gender dysphoria? It's unconscionable.

Michelleoftheresistance · 18/01/2020 15:29

Very interesting and well explained article. A MNetter who sadly hasn't been around for a while, said years ago something about when biological women put up a boundary or say no, it triggers 'mummy doesn't love us'. It's a thought I've come back to over and over again as so very astute in that primal rage you see and the inability to view those women as people or having any role or personhood other than meeting needs and demands of the asker.

It also links for me to a fierce argument I witnessed years ago between a group of adoptive mothers who had banded together for support in helping their very severely traumatised children. It was a group where dark humour and emotional support and open discussion of the stress and sometimes physical injury that the extreme needs of their children caused to them, where they were friends helping each other and not in that moment the calm, regulated, You Come First mum that they were every other moment of the day. An adult with severe childhood trauma tore into the group in utter fury that they should talk, even privately among themselves, about the stress and distress the behaviours caused, or even take time away from their children for this social contact. What the adult couldn't see but the mothers could, was that here was that traumatised toddler, screaming through this adult, you can be nobody but My Mum, you can do and think about nothing but me, you have no life or existence other than meeting MY needs, you can never be tired or angry or injured - those thoughts were too threatening and enraging to cope with.

I see plenty of that in the DIAF/barbed wire baseball bats. So much of this is toddler emotional level.

Datun · 18/01/2020 15:40

Michelleoftheresistance

Absolutely.

There was so much to extract from that article, but the mummy stuff was paramount for me.

The number of times the women on here have said I might be a mummy, but I'm not your mummy. As a recognition of what what is being expected of them and how one dimensionally they are being regarded.

It made sobering reading actually. And I might need to revisit it.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 18/01/2020 15:40

Yep. It's why "I am not your mummy" is the response most likely to send people stuck at that emotional stage into screeching incoherent rage. The problem is that it's true - women as a group are not and cannot reasonably be expected to be the collective all loving, all sacrificing mothers of whichever random person happens to feel like that's something they need from the universe.

HunnyMummy1993 · 18/01/2020 15:52

Developmental studies show that young children have only a superficial understanding of sex and gender (at best). For instance, up until age seven, many children often believe that if a boy puts on a dress, he becomes a girl

This is fascinating. I do wonder if the dysphoria we are seeing now is related to a lag in this understanding developing properly. It’s interesting that most people seem, if left alone, to grow out of their dysphoria at around the age of 25 as the changes caused by puberty finally cease. ( as a former old—fashioned tomboy who desperately wanted to be a boy from my earliest memory, I count myself among these. btw )

ArranUpsideDown · 18/01/2020 23:32

MNetter who sadly hasn't been around for a while, said years ago something about when biological women put up a boundary or say no, it triggers 'mummy doesn't love us'

@LadyPrincesexual (aka) Jane Clare Jones wrote an interesting piece on the topic: All western culture rests on the murder of the mother (Luce Irigaray):

janeclarejones.com/2018/10/01/a-note-on-smashing-the-binary/

Reading it, how can anyone think that women should serve as public therapy for XY persons with gender dysphoria? It's unconscionable.

Agreed that it should be unconscionable but it's still widely practised as a social valve/means of social control.

Aramox · 19/01/2020 07:56

There is some really important stuff in here. There’s some awful tosh in it too though. Women have to recognise they must be penetrated , and accept their lack of power in the world? Come on!

fuckitywhy · 19/01/2020 09:10

That's a bit of a weird take on what he wrote Aramox. How did you come up with that?