Marcus Evans on Why He Left the Tavi

[rodgmum]

Marcus Evans has written an excellent piece on Quilette outlining his concerns about the Tavistock and the gender identity issue in general.

I cannot express how grateful I am that he is willing to speak up.

quillette.com/2020/01/17/why-i-resigned-from-tavistock-trans-identified-children-need-therapy-not-just-affirmation-and-drugs/

Aramox it is a blunt description, but you need to understand that that’s exactly how a lot of these young female adolescents feel (I’d personally add a question of whether it particularly relates those with autism). The point is that they need help through these issues and identifying them is a first step.

Well he’s coming from a psychoanalytic (and developmental) perspective. Many children go ‘yuk!’ when they first learn what reproduction involves. I think it’s more that, that he’s getting at and how children process what that one day might mean for their bodies as they get older, and the impact on their development.

It is a good article in some respects. We definitely do need more resources for mental health. His analysis will apply to some not (one size fits) all. But as usual with psychoanalysts in private practice (and with books to sell) his solution is that most of the population are potential patients and need long term extensive, expensive, psychodynamic psychotherapy.

Amarox
I don't interpret the below paragraph as "tosh" I mean, how else do you get pregnant?

A boy has to come to terms with the fact that he has a penis and that he eventually will have to penetrate a woman to create a baby. A girl has to allow herself to be penetrated if she wants a child

I thought the article raised so many valuable points, the faddish nature of current gender ideology, the influence of social media on vulnerable teenagers, how transing is presented as a cure-all for deep psychological issues, how proper research is repressed, the problems of "affirmation" and comparing it to the problems America is facing with prescription painkillers, giving the patient what they want isn't always good or ethical, so many more.

Great article, thanks for sharing.

And didn't he use a case study of a child who was absolutely aghast at being told the facts of life? And thought it was awful? I can't quite remember now, something like that.

The beginning and end point to me is that children do not, or should not, have any comprehension of what it means to be a sexual being.My 12 year old DS knows what sex is, but atm he has no idea what it’s like to want to have sex, or to have sex. He is still a child, so the idea of having children of his own is the same as him imagining he can fly. Give it 5 years however and sex will probably become a reality, where as having kids of his own might never become a reality, or it might not even cross his mind as a serious proposition until he’s 35. I was absolute certain I didn’t want kids until I hit my mid 20s when I suddenly became very broody. It was as much a surprise to me as it was to everyone who knew me.

As far as I’m concerned the book should stop there as far as any hormonal or surgical treatment goes.

It’s not how I got pregnant for a start. Just seems really obsessively, freudianly, heterosexual.

That homophobic, transphobic, bigoted bitch that is mother nature again!

How does a female get pregnant without being penetrated? Even IUI or IVF requires penetration with a syringe (and interval ultrasound prove repeated).

*internal untrasound probe

Good article, lots of interesting points.
Is there a reason he refers to 'Spa University' rather than Bath Spa or is this likely to be an editing error by Quillette?

Yy Aesop. Wtf.

Brilliant article.

What I don't get, is why the authorities are not stepping in?

Look at all this. It's such a mess. This is a huge scandal.

Ok, alternative insemination but I wouldn’t call it penetration. I’ve nothing against penetration- I just think his model there is aggressively essentialist. I hope the main points get more widely picked up.

He's talking about the visceral, instinctive reaction to learning about the facts of life. It's not a directive, he's talking about psychological reactions to certain stages of discovery.

That most people find these facts difficult very initially, and a few develop significant issues around coming to terms with them, is germaine to what he is talking about, wrt development of the psyche, self image and physical development etc.

It's a fascinating and infuriating article. I am entirely confident that in 40 years time we will look at the current situation with the same disdain we view lobotomies. My hope is that we can ensure as few people are permanently damaged as the inevitable wake up dawns on the establishment. But I certainly hope that every single person with authority in this faces serious consequences for their part in it.

This article needs to be read by more people. Who would it be useful to print it out and send it to? MPs, NHS bodies? Trying to think of the best way of doing it and would appreciate ideas.

The pp mentioning the thing about children believing a boy become a girl when he puts on a dress - this is nicely illustrated by a thread elsewhere on MN today about not seeing five year old girls with short hair. Some small children mentioned on that thread seemed to think that having long hair made a boy into a girl.

Great article.

The thoughts on rage against mummy is interesting when you think about what a prime target Mumsnet is for trans activism. All those mummies en masse, being disappointing! No wonder it provokes rage.

Thank you for speaking up, Marcus Evans. This is what people should be doing.

Thinking back to my own children when very small, they had some bizarrely fixed ideas that came from god knows where. DS aged about 4 was adamant that 'nurses were ladies and doctors were men' in much the same way that a cow was female and a bull male. This was despite his own doctor being a woman, and his uncle being a nurse.

Are people seriously saying that a four-year-old who says he's 'a girl' knows what he's talking about?

Most children express disgust when they hear about sexual intercourse. Many a child has expressed horror at the thought that their parents had to do it TWICE in order for themselves and their sibling to be conceived.

I'm still pretty horrified that my parents must have done it FOUR TIMES and I'm nearly 60. Ewww