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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Petition for third space for trans people

41 replies

WeeMadArthur · 17/01/2020 09:34

Thought you might be interested in signing this petition to ask for separate spaces for trans people

change.org

OP posts:
driverkatie552 · 14/06/2020 21:52

Excellent let's exclude the trans community from society even more than they are already

purpleboy · 16/06/2020 17:02

It's not about excluding trans it's about protecting women and children.

ForeverBubblegum · 16/06/2020 17:50

Sighed

ErrolTheDragon · 27/06/2020 08:17

Excellent let's exclude the trans community from society even more than they are already

The petition is by transwomen, didn't you read it? I've already signed it - I support a society which includes trans people without excluding vulnerable women.

BatleyTownswomensGuild · 27/06/2020 08:34

An excellent idea. Signed.

Notwiththeseknees · 27/06/2020 09:19

Signed

abi3366 · 04/07/2020 18:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Thisismytimetoshine · 04/07/2020 18:02

Toilets and changing rooms are not society, don't be bloody obtuse.

Queenoftheashes · 04/07/2020 18:03

@Thisismytimetoshine

Toilets and changing rooms are not society, don't be bloody obtuse.
Yeah no one is talking about keeping them in the back room at dinner parties
Cheesecake53 · 04/07/2020 18:05

Signed.

PotteringAlong · 04/07/2020 18:08

Signed

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/07/2020 18:11

I'll bite!

Yes Abi I would say that 3rd spaces would protect women and girls from all male bodied persons, no matter how they identify.

Because women and girls have every right to their privacy and dignity.

Because I am not trying to ignore, exclude or erase any trans person. I am looking for a reasonable compromise between 2 clashing sets of human rights.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/07/2020 18:12

Then again, having worked through your post again... it seems we agree on that Smile

LastTrainEast · 04/07/2020 18:14

Signed, but I predict a lot of opposition from other transwomen and it might even be removed as transphobic even though it's been put up by two Transwomen.

5lilducks · 04/07/2020 18:15

Thanks for the link. Signed.

LastTrainEast · 04/07/2020 18:49

I hadn't realised this was an old thread,.

theproblemwitheyes · 04/07/2020 18:50

Separate but equal! Sounds great...

PheasantPlucker1 · 04/07/2020 19:04

Zombie thread but Im intruiged why people have an issue with these transwomen asking for their own spaces.

Would you insist they should be refused and have to use male spaces?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/07/2020 19:25

That's the problem TRAs have caused.

As they rely on, for decades transwomen have used the women's loos. They think that's a Gotcha! when really it was/is always female socialisation coming to the fore. You see a transwoman come in, and yes it is usually quite obvious, and you think "oh, transwoman!" and swallow any misgivings you may have, maybe even go as far as to be chatty and nice, to prove you aren't a bigot, and the transwomen may or may not assume they have 'passed'. Even in the best circumstances a woman has had a second thought in a female space.

Now though, because of TRA demands, shouts, threats and actions many women have decided no, enough is enough, I revoke the unspoken permission. I will not stay silent.

Like me many women have struggled with this. Some have trans family members, friends, colleagues, all of whom are treated as they choose to present. My struggle continued even as I stood for a transman at his wedding. I have been there with him for 20+ years and all the surgery, behavioural training etc. And that cognitive dissonance hurts my sense of who I am. I truly resent the actions that are ramming into law what has been given as a politeness.

But TRA actions have changed my attitude and I will now stand up and say something if I feel put upon by any transwoman in a female space.

Basically, trans people have rights. Women have rights. Transwomen are not women and I won't accept them as such. Transmen are women, but they too have made choices that cause similar issues.

That's why I support 3rd spaces. I can't square a circle any more than anyone else can!

purpleboy · 04/07/2020 20:05

Anyone summarize what @abi3366 said, I was tagged but was deleted before I saw it.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/07/2020 20:11

It seemed to both agree and disagree with your post, which is why posted as I did immediately afterwards. It wriggled out from under ease of comprehension.

Nothing in it that was horrid, it was just a bit mixed up, self contradictory,, I think.

If course it could have been really snarky... and I remain confused Smile

weepingwillow22 · 04/07/2020 20:33

I don't think this is a practical solution. The costs of this will be horrendous. They are expecting hospitals to increase the number of single sex wards by 50% in order to have a seperate space.

Also has anyone really thought through the implications of having transsex bathrooms in schools. This raises all sorts of issues over and above the cost issue.

Plus do all transmen and transwomen want to share the same space anyway?

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/07/2020 20:41

That's not really down to women though.

Women don't want to use a 3rd space. Women just want to continue to have access to single sex spaces where and when appropriate.

It is not a female issue. It is unreasonable to make it one, especially when it is only women who are being told they must give up their legal rights to dignity, privacy and single sex spaces.

Third spaces may well be expensive, so were all female facilities initially. If they are utilised then society will accept the additional cost. If not then they will disappear through disuse and the great social experiment will be over... until the next chapter.

Thisismytimetoshine · 04/07/2020 20:44

Also has anyone really thought through the implications of having transsex bathrooms in schools. This raises all sorts of issues over and above the cost issue.
What issues exactly, over and above girls having to put up with boys in their bathrooms and look happy about it?

weepingwillow22 · 04/07/2020 21:15

@thisismytimetoshine

  1. It will make them more conspicious and more likely to be bullied
  2. Do schools really want to be policing who uses these spaces? However if we just go for a free for all approach these spaces could end up being used by everyone making them pointless.

Given that we seem to be in land of unlimited spend here it would be better if schools and public places had seperate cubicles for everyone with no labelling at all.