Transwoman awarded £9k for sex discrimination

[jadefinch]

A transwoman has been awarded £9k after claiming they failed to get a job at Debenhams because they're trans (and used sex discrimination legislation!).

The only evidence they had of discrimination was an 'anonymous email'.

Their story doesn't make much sense - who asks to see a birth certificate at an interview? Other comments they've given to the media about people in a canteen gawping seem to contradict their claim that there was no transphobia during the interview, and Debenhams paid on the basis that they accept 'no liability'.

There's also claims on Facebook that this person was recently caught on CCTV stealing.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7894413/Transgender-woman-Ava-Moore-Newry-Northern-Ireland-gets-9-000-settlement-Debenhams.html

Can I be a dissenting voice here? If Debenham's rejected the transwoman's employment application because the transwoman was trans, then they have engaged in discrimination in employment and should agree a settlement

I totally agree with this. And I imagine that non-passing trans women suffer a lot of discrimination when it comes to employment so it would not be a surprise if there was discrimination in this case. Either way £9000 is not a lot of money when you consider what Debenhams would need to spend to defend themselves at a tribunal hearing.

@Catapultaway

I read it as the cctv saw her remove the purse and go to the ladies to empty it?

We only have their view that they didn't get the job because of discrimination. They were given a settlement. Nobody found for either side or awarded anything. I think it would have been difficult to prove discrimination but it's easier for Debenhams to pay out this small amount. They've now outed themselves to anyone who receives an application from them and googles them in the future though.

I wonder how many interviewed for the job and how their experience compared.

The video interview being shown today siesays massive entitlement - ‘raging’ because they didn’t get the job, should have been in the job a year. I thought the idea that having shown BC to the interviewer everyone in the canteen started staring with a ‘kill the monster’ vibe verged on paranoia.

*displays, sorry

Quite ironic actually, the sense of entitlement that they absolutely deserved the job more than anyone else is a very male trait...

I know anecdote is not data but my HR colleagues each have over 20 years recruitment experience and all report that in all those years, none of them have ever received a complaint from a woman insisting that she was clearly the best person for the job, but they have had dozens over the years from men.

Isabellerossignol I completely disagree that big companies comply with discrimination laws in employment and it is only small employers getting it wrong. There is some very good evidence showing that some forms of discrimination are widespread in employers of all sizes. I regularly come across examples of flagrant discrimination in big employers.

Very few people pursue discrimination claims, particularly ones about recruitment, as they are so very hard to prove. It is entirely possible that the Debenham's people who were doing the recruitment did discriminate and they documented this, without realising it. People can be really stupid.

LukewarmCustard is that in general, or specific to N Ireland?

Mouselouse - I picked up on that too! I can't imagine they'd allow that show to be made nowadays. I seem to remember it had a couple of trans characters who were crazy.

I know anecdote is not data but my HR colleagues each have over 20 years recruitment experience and all report that in all those years, none of them have ever received a complaint from a woman insisting that she was clearly the best person for the job, but they have had dozens over the years from men

I am not in HR but I have come across this once. A female trainee not offered a qualified post at the end of her traineeship. It's the only one I know of, either male or female.

Quite ironic actually, the sense of entitlement that they absolutely deserved the job more than anyone else is a very male trait...

Shedidn't actually use the word "deserved" She said she should have got it. Do you say the same to female posters on here who have been passed over in favour of men? They say the same thing.

From a pragmatic standpoint: It's a settlement, though, not a verdict.

Companies will settle legal disputes over 9k even when they think they're firmly in the right. That's because the legal costs of going to court as a corporation will immediately outweigh a basically non-significant amount such as this.

This is absolutely the decision I would take in my day job over an amount like this. The admin and internal processes alone would cost me more than 9k - never mind getting a barrister on board for actual representation in a court of law.

Basically: I wouldn't overerstimate the political/philosophical aspect of this. It's probably sound business judgment.

But how did they know they would have got the job if they didn’t know how good the other candidates were?

And this purse theft thing is irrelevant - if she wasn’t convicted for it, then it’s anyone’s word against anyone. Unless she gave the ex-friend’s name for a reference - what impact would it have on whether she got a job or not?

The anonymous email was clearly enough to make Debenhams decide to settle.

She may well have had a good case.

I'm not really clear on what the difference is between this person saying that they deserve the job and that they should have got the job. There was one job and they think that they should have got it.

And this purse theft thing is irrelevant - if she wasn’t convicted for it, then it’s anyone’s word against anyone.

I'd say it is relevant, because it shows that Debenhams weren't letting the rumours about this person prevent them from being called to interview. Newry is not a huge place and it operates a retail crime watch scheme. You can be sure that if there were rumours about this person, true or otherwise, the management of the shop would have been aware. But still they were called to interview, presumably because they followed the rules and interviewed based on what was put on the application form.

Do you say the same to female posters on here who have been passed over in favour of men? They say the same thing.

Of course she doesn't. It's just another example of the stinking hypocrisy on here. A cis woman and a trans woman could say exactly the same thing and the former would be standing up for herself while the latter would be immediately condemned for displaying supposed male entitlement.

Of course she doesn't

Nice of you to speak for me. Women shouldn't have opinions of their own eh?

Oh, and there's no such thing as cis women. We already have a word in English to describe people who were born female and grow into adults, and it's 'women'.

Anyone else surprised that this settlement didn’t include a non disclosure agreement?

Women shouldn't have opinions of their own eh?

Nice try but saying someone is demonstrating double standards isn't the same as saying they can't have opinions. I'm actually happy for those type of opinions to be expressed because it shows the hypocrisy of this forum to everyone.

And where have I said that women being assertive is standing up for themselves but men doing it is showing male entitlement?

I did temp work at Debenhams and they did insist on birth certificate. Had to be a full cert, which meant I needed to order one as my folks only got me an abbreviated one ( civil action in late 60s, when illegitimate kids could only get abbreviated certs, thus marking them out forever more, poor kids). So I believe Ava was asked to provide it, I just don't think it was the reason Ava didn't get the job. Ava's killed any chance of a retail career with this...

yes there IS a non disclosure clause with Debenhams if you sign a contract. You're not to mention them anywhere (so I'll await my bolt of lightening) but Ava never got the job, so is free to say anything.

misspiggy19 I am also wondering why there isn't a non-disclosure agreement in place. I thought that they were standard practice across the UK.

Gertrudesgarden The settlement agreement is a different document to the employment contract. You can have a settlement agreement without ever having signed an employment contract.

The Equality Commission have press releases on their website regularly detailing people's settlements, giving names of complainants and employers. They are very rarely related to recruitment though. More often they relate to people who are already employed.