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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Anyone watching the Louis Theroux programme?

120 replies

Doyoumind · 12/01/2020 21:05

Not the first he's done on the subject but I'm interested on his take.

OP posts:
theflushedzebra · 12/01/2020 23:38

I was also a teen in the 80s and there was absolutely not the porn culture of nowadays - no such thing as FWBs, no online porn, porn mags were seen as pretty sad and shameful, or something to be guffawed at by schoolboys, porn videos were 'under the counter' sold to men in macs... nothing like today.

Now things are so extreme, we have pup play fetishists on our streets and working for children's charities... and are told not to 'kink shame' them.

theflushedzebra · 12/01/2020 23:44

Also, people shouldn't conflate 'sexual repression' with the rise of the porn industry.

You don't have to be sexually repressed to see how damaging the sex industry is for women - the sex industry is predominantly for male sexual pleasure/dominance, and has little concern for female sexual pleasure or sexual equality.

RedToothBrush · 12/01/2020 23:47

Erosion of boundaries... And the social acceptability of saying 'no'.

TalkingintheDark · 13/01/2020 00:03

HUGE, HUGE, HUGE safeguarding fail on the part of the BBC/Theroux to include the 14 yo daughter, without even disguising her face or voice. Shockingly wrong. That poor girl. She has no idea, she cannot possibly give informed consent to being in the programme, she could not know the potential repercussions of it.

Just horrified at that. Can’t believe no one thought to protect her. And the delusion that her mother is a “protective” mother when in fact she’s so damaged she can’t see that involving her daughter in this is the opposite of protective. I don’t doubt Victoria loves her daughter very much but her perspective is too skewed for her to really understand what it means to keep your child safe.

What a heartbreaking programme overall. “Abuse has made me numb to sex so now I can use that numbness to make money out of being further abused, yay!” Said (obvs paraphrased) literally through the tears, in the case of Ashley. And without the tears, just numbness, by Victoria. Not sure which is sadder. Sad Sad Sad

Just all very sad. It’s a shame Theroux didn’t include any kind of feminist perspective on it at all - he talked at the end about society judging women who sell sex but not a word about judging men who buy sex. Guess most of the world just doesn’t see it like that, which is depressing in itself. The feminist perspective just really isn’t part of the mainstream at all, is it? And definitely not “cool”.

Gingerkittykat · 13/01/2020 01:58

What is the programme about and what channel was it on?

theflushedzebra · 13/01/2020 02:09

It's about selling sex, and you can catch it on BBC IPlayer.

Bluerussian · 13/01/2020 02:16

Doyoumind Sun 12-Jan-20 21:48:37
I feel sad for the married woman because it's like she felt that sex was the only way to increase her self esteem and make her value herself.
.......
That is not an uncommon thing unfortunately. Women/girls feel affirmed by performing sex well - but that feeling doesn't last.

Goosefoot · 13/01/2020 02:50

I was also a teen in the 80s and there was absolutely not the porn culture of nowadays

I didn't suggest that there was. What I said was there was, at least where I lived, in my community, the same sense that sex was just a pass-time, not worth being too worked up about, which another poster had connected to porn culture.

I have no doubt that porn culture reinforces that in a big way, but I think it has its roots in the sexual revolution. As does porn culture to some extent, the other part of that being technology changes.

JulyKit · 13/01/2020 04:12

But I don't know if there is a place for disabled people to be able to have sex

Erm, of course there's "a place for disabled people to have sex", just as there's "a place" for anyone to have sex when they meet someone they'd like to have sex with and that person would also like to have sex with them. I'm not sure why you imagine that this basic rule wouldn't apply to disabled people, just like it applies to everyone else.

and for some disabled people the only way would be to pay.
Well if what you're trying to say is that some disabled people are so unattractive that no one would have sex with them unless paid to, I think you'll find the same is true of some people (by which I assume you mean men) who aren't disabled.

I really don't know what the answer is. I feel like yes they should but does that mean the sex worker is exploited or are they a carer?

No one 'should' have sex unless it's with another person who'd actually like to have sex with them. I'm not sure why you think different rules apply to people with disabilities.
Also, why do you think bought sex is 'care' for disabled people?

NeurotrashWarrior · 13/01/2020 06:56

Wow. Not watched but I can't believe it was aired.

By the way, Stacey Dooley mentioned at a talk recently she has a documentary on us women's prisons coming soon. She indicated it might cover the issue of TW in women's prisons. Not sure on what side though.

NeurotrashWarrior · 13/01/2020 07:20

Also just seen this;

twitter.com/actualfemale123/status/1216473010145615872?s=21

Anyone watching the Louis Theroux programme?
Dervel · 13/01/2020 07:35

Well that was depressing. What struck me was that for many of the women there was a buried desire for genuine connection and intimacy and could help but notice the parallels with the disabled man. His lack of sexual experiences prior to paying for sex comes across as a tragedy he had been unable to engage in a the fundamentally human experience of sex, but isn’t the same also true that thanks to past trauma a lot of these women have endured they have similarly missed out on genuine human loving intimacy?

Doyoumind · 13/01/2020 07:40

Interesting neurotrash. He did do a programme on transgender children, didn't he but it was a few years ago now.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 13/01/2020 08:45

The transgender children doc is on Iplayer

NeurotrashWarrior · 13/01/2020 08:56

That's interesting, I wonder why it's back?

RedToothBrush · 13/01/2020 09:02

All Louis Theroux back catalogue is on Iplayer and has been for a while since he made a come back last year.

LangCleg · 13/01/2020 09:22

Also, people shouldn't conflate 'sexual repression' with the rise of the porn industry.

Yes. Also young, free and pringle (anyone else remember saying that?!) in the 80s. Barely any porn and in our minds it was mostly for young boys to snigger at and sad old couples (because Viagra hadn't been invented yet) anyway. Why watch sex if you could be doing it? That's how we saw it. Our main thing was condoms for a one night stand because we were all wary of herpes and HIV.

Namestranger · 13/01/2020 09:45

Blimey that punter was deluded 🙄

Justhadathought · 13/01/2020 10:01

He did, but only touched on it lightly, I’m thinking there’s more to it..just odd

Can't help but suspect that sexual abuse might have been part of her childhood too. Whatever the case, sex has become a disproportionate aspect of her life and her self esteem.

Justhadathought · 13/01/2020 10:02

The married woman should definitely not be married and just lead the 'free' life she so clearly wants to. Feel sorry for the husband

I suspect that it is far more complex than that; and that the husband is more than complicit.

Justhadathought · 13/01/2020 10:07

By Sara Pascoe who is a feminist and used to be against prostitution until she started interviewing the women involved

It depends on how much depth your interview has, doesn't it? The first round of interviews with Luis suggested that everything was fine.....just a job; means of self expression etc But then scratch the surface......

I'm sure there can be arguments that suggest that prostitution, for these women, is a way of healing and taking back control......indeed that is the argument the women featured used themselves. But is also suggests a fixation on the site of 'the wound' - and in itself that is not healthy.

IAmAFreak · 13/01/2020 10:07

To me the husband in the older couple came across as gay, very mixed up relationship right there, felt sorry for the wife

Justhadathought · 13/01/2020 10:09

I wonder why Louie couldn’t have found someone not so damaged to balance the argument a bit

The women did not present as damaged, though.....the damage was discovered afterwards. The producer didn't advertise for 'damaged women' to take part.

Justhadathought · 13/01/2020 10:12

*Also in a more practical level I do wonder how the older lady had some much juice left in the tank? I'm mid 40s and peri menopause seriously makes me feel like I can't be arsed8

I'm not she does...I suggest that she has become addicted on a psychological level to what she is doing because it seems to resolve a long standing issue around self esteem......and around sex....which her oddly detached husband helped to nurture.

Justhadathought · 13/01/2020 10:12

I'm not sure she does

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