Anyone watching the Louis Theroux programme?

[Doyoumind]

Not the first he's done on the subject but I'm interested on his take.

I'm concerned about the daughter too. What a depressing watch.

It's the married couple who are the most ... strange. She's doing it to boost her self esteem but what's in it for him

Louis did suggest that it was the husband who encouraged it......as a sort of fantasy scenario for his own pleasure; problem is he now is not feeling quite so good about it.

All very sad!

@Justhadathought I missed that - my DD loves Louis and it was she who was watching it - I started concentrating halfway through.

I think he said that Caroline, the mother of four, was open about what she does so maybe not so much fallout? Really hope that her daughter doesn't follow the same path ...

Other than the daughter, for me the most depressing thing (aside from the depressing personal stories) was how one of the 20 something's described sex as something everyone was doing with everyone and that it was meaningless (or did she say almost meaning less). Cannot quite articulate why I found that so depressing, but it is somethIng to do with loss of joy, meaning and magic.

I'm concerned about the daughter too. What a depressing watch

The mother and daughter had a very close bond; and I suspect that the daughter will see herself, in some way, as her mother's protector.

Louis always seems to get to the heart of issues.......and the truth is that all three of these women were immensely vulnerable; two having been sexually abused when young, and now numb....trying to turn the sexual abuse around into a form of empowerment. It isn't and can't be, though.

The married couple seem to have got themselves involved in some kind of elaborate fantasy/fetish...which has now taken on a life of its own. Not healthy - the woman seems to feel that sex is now her main or only means of self worth or value.

Hints that her husband kind of led her this way.....as a means of making her sexually more available to him.

Very good journalism from Louis. I'd say probing but that would be the wrong terminology. I do think the women seemed vulnerable and dare I say it, damaged / confused. Ashley's story was so sad. I guess I think there'a no way these females could gain the upper hand through sex work, really. It did seem they were looking for a relationship or validation really...

Really hope that her daughter doesn't follow the same path

i don't think she will. She seems to feel loved and valued; and she is.

Was how one of the 20 something's described sex as something everyone was doing with everyone and that it was meaningless

I was struck about how little self reflection was going on......how little emotional honesty.......these young people have grown up up in a culture which suggests that everything is 'cool' and that to have any doubts or questions is just being 'hung up'.

This was a brilliant programme, but so sad. It really crystallised for me what I already thought of prostitution, women putting themselves up for abuse and men paying to abuse them.

In the past I would have felt sorry for the disabled man, but what stood out for me was his male entitlement. I want sex, so I deserve it. And Louis showed what it cost the women.

Difficult subject all round! The older couple might easily have become a divorce statistic as she realised how much she’d missed of her sexual nature, so they seem to be finding a creative way to stay together. Even so, he seemed ambivalent about how her emotional energy seemed divided. I also wondered why they didn’t simply get into polyamory rather than her becoming an escort? I agree it’s dubious ethically to have a 14-year-old interviewed when she could be destroyed on social media for it. I believe anyone has a right to do with their body what they wish as long as no one is being coerced or forced. I would not demonise anyone who chose a transactional approach to sex: buying or selling.

Louis is excellent

All very sad. The strangest was the older lady, I almost feel there’s more to it, in regards to the husband? She didn’t seem happy at all and although she made comments to the contrary, I wondered if she’s been steered into this/controlled by the husband? I may be reading it all wrong, just very strange.

I wonder what Ashley's friends will make of her admission to Louis at the end - that sex is very far from meaningless to her

My TV is broken so only getting the gist of the show from this discussion. As far as I know in rare cases in New Zealand the health system pays for sex workers to provide sexual services to people who have had accidents. (Through their ACC system which is an excellent health care model). Totally prepared to be corrected on that because I don't know for sure but an interesting one for sure.

*This was a brilliant programme, but so sad. It really crystallised for me what I already thought of prostitution, women putting themselves up for abuse and men paying to abuse them8

in a kind of convoluted, and ill conceived way, the women are attempting to heal themselves : to use their past abuse and the ensuing numbness of it.......in prostituting themselves in this way, what they are saying is " You can't hurt me anymore" - and in fact "I'm going to get something out of this" ( money). Men are now having to pay for something that was originally stolen from them.

Of course, this won't really heal them; and will only cause further numbness, as well as poisoning their view of the potential and meaningfulness of human relationships.

I wondered if she’s been steered into this/controlled by the husband? I may be reading it all wrong, just very strange

Yes, definitely! And Louis did pick up on that.

He did, but only touched on it lightly, I’m thinking there’s more to it..just odd

Agree about Louis Theroux - I've never seen a journalist able to interview like he does. He's so real, he connects with everyone, yet still maintains a distance - does that make sense? Never seen anything like is gentle questioning, followed by silence, followed by "ok..."

He rarely lets his own view drive his programs, but I get the sense he has been so deeply troubled by so many of his shows - this one included.

The show he did on he Nevada brothel can, I think, still be viewed. I think it's on YT. Same thing there. Just deeply troubled at how vulnerable the women seem.

"Date My Pornstar" - despite the dubious title - is a real eye-opener on porn too (to me little separates porn and prostitution) - not Louis, but a very good programme to watch - still available on C4 / All4.

Very sad about the daughter, I can't believe she was allowed on TV. She could be mercilessly teased over this. Although of course she had her Mother's best intentions at heart. Shame her Mother hasn't got her daughter's best intentions at heart.
The married woman should definitely not be married and just lead the 'free' life she so clearly wants to. Feel sorry for the husband.

I missed the part where Louis insinuated the husband may have encouraged the wife to take this path, sinister to say the least.

Agree, I'm really not sure about the ethics of showing a 14 yr old on the show.

Sexual abuse, low self esteem, poor relationships - just the thread that runs through the stories all three women featured in this - which makes me sad. Lots of parallels with the show I've just mentioned upthread C4's "Date my Pornstar".

these young people have grown up up in a culture which suggests that everything is 'cool' and that to have any doubts or questions is just being 'hung up'.

Taught by an online culture that says if you are sexually unavailable you are a failure, uncool, boring, prudish, (add your own derogatory comment here).

Is that not grooming?

Yes it's very much social media culture and having been very immersed in it in the past I can't say I'm surprised.

Porn culture has been normalised.

Certainly none of the women seemed to have any understanding or experience of what a healthy and loving relationship was - very much including the married couple.

I didn't have any sympathy for the husband. He suggested it to the wife who had been conditioned to be submissive and to people please men. She obviously took it seriously and explored it and is very confused between thinking being sexually attractive means she is visible/has worth and how she is still submissive to her husband. He just looks completely out of his depth and unsure of how to address the situation. He clearly does love her but he didn't value her and has had something of a rude shock.

Has anyone ever listened to the “sex, money, power” podcast? By Sara Pascoe who is a feminist and used to be against prostitution until she started interviewing the women involved. That was the first time I’d ever heard a convincing argument from women for the profressionalisation of prostitution . They had even set up a Union, I wonder why Louie couldn’t have found someone not so damaged to balance the argument a bit.

Also in a more practical level I do wonder how the older lady had some much juice left in the tank? I'm mid 40s and peri menopause seriously makes me feel like I can't be arsed!

The thing is, Sharpand - that is the story of empowerment that is common to hear from prostitutes and pornstars - that it's empowering, their choice, etc etc - until you dig a little deeper. As Louis did. Then, almost without exception, out comes a tale of past sexual abuse, troubled relationships, or of being left poverty stricken, or vulnerable - it all comes out with careful questioning as Louis did.

Porn culture has been normalised.

I have to say that as a teen in the late 80s early 90s, while some of the elements of the internet age hadn't emerged, the culture around me was very much that sex was not meaningful, having hand-ups was lame, etc. It was largely my mother who took another POVin my life.