Gender (sex) bias at work

[IceniSky]

Are there any threads on this already? I couldn't see any. I'm in a male dominated sector that promotes equal opportunities but I wonder whether I'm on the receiving end of second generation gender bias.

There are no senior females in my department. I've been there a very long time and have only ever had shinning reviews and positive comments however, it just feels the white middle aged men get ahead faster. I am not even sure I want to go any further as I just feel very worn down but the posturing for power I get impacted by or caught up in.

Anyone have experience of this, and how can you tell whether it is, or it is just you not being good enough? I do work flexibly to pick up child from school.

We have an offsite in a few weeks, and you can ask questions via Sli.do, which get answered if people vote them up. Can you get into trouble if you ask about gender bias and whether they feel it exists, whether they feel their policies on stopping WFH for a few days a week could be indirect discrimination, and what the female applicant rate is and whether not mentioning flexible working, WFH naturally excludes mothers from applying?

You could try and ask a question like “are the panel aware of the research that diversity of senior employees would make us stronger as a business, and do you have any plans to encourage women, BAME.. to meet their potential?”

You could also look at something you’d like. Like the “iamremarkable” programme. And ask if they plan to offer that. That programme is all about encouraging women to advocate for themselves. So managers are being told by the woman what the woman’s talents are. But the title of the programme might make it more likely to be upvoted on sli,do.

Another tip is to decide what you want to ask and have it ready on your phone and copy and paste it into sli.do ...

Working from home can have a bad rep. I think we have all met people at the school sports day and similar who say they are wfh. Rebranding it as something like “21st century smarter working” might make it more sellable to your audience?

Ah yes. This. Early thirties I remember wondering what all the fuss was about. Excellent appraisals, encouraging words from seniors about promotion opportunities etc. Fast forward a few years into my late thirties and I'm no further forward. White men who were my peers a few years back (and who were arguably either equally or less talented than me) have now been promoted. I just can't work it out it feels very disorientating.

Here’s one for you that might be sli.do compatible. Link is to Harvard Business Review. “Would the panel like to know how we can make our key projects more effective? It’s to include women. hbr.org/2011/06/defend-your-research-what-makes-a-team-smarter-more-women”

We have I iamremarkable and I am part if it!

They have a lot of equality stuff!

But yes, early 40s and I've hit a wall. I hired a male into the company, under me. He was great. Reorg, he got fed up and resigned. I advocated for him, got him in front of band A. He is now mentored by band A, offered promotion equivalent to my role, in similar role to me, but he is now pretty much feeding my role and controlling it because 'band A" wants CYZ, to which I am not privy too. Addressed it with him. Apologised. It's getting worse. I feel my manager or band A are part if the 'club ' and I've no one to talk to!

My trusted colleagues were given VR and the other left last month due to politics.

I'll read up on some of this. I was reading articles Friday and it felt like my life. I am a very petite, feminine and introverted which just doesnt help. But I do defend my corner, it just gets ignored.

I don’t think directly accusing the panel of sexism or racism is going to get you the benefit you want. Because the panel haven’t made the decision today to be sexist/racist. It’s part of the system, embedded.
At 20 women do just fine in the workplace because they have decent GCSEs. At 40 the criteria for the job are much vaguer. This may work to the benefit of applicants whose career trajectory/presentation style is closer to that of the interviewer. (So can appoint another white male).
If you are taking flexi-time or working off site you have less opportunity to chat in the gym to the decision makers. Those that can network have an advantage. More males without children or with a stay at home wife.
So in your position you might want to ask for a practical step that moves closer to equality of opportunity for you.

Wonder whether I am at the stage where I need to choose family or career, and just suck it up if it is the former. This person is the same age, same age children, but I guess is just going for it.

DH has worked in a large company for years but had an interview in a smaller company last week and came back shocked that there were no senior women interviewing him and that even on his walk around he only saw two women working 'but of course the HR lady was a woman' - if he noticed it, then it must have been bloody obvious. He didn't mention it to them though but he did say who he knew A and B there because they'd worked with C and he'd worked with C, and D had worked with him and A - all (white) men giving each other jobs and references.

Our place actively monitors what is happening and will challenge // mark down areas that have unbalanced promotions over time and are trying to ensure that half recruitment interviewers are female ( challenging when we are no where half the workforce)

Sorry OP didn’t mean to ask you to suck eggs. Sunday morning over posting. Do you have a mentor?

There is evidence to show that women don't promote themselves in the same way as men do, eg going for a promotion or pay rise even though not quite qualified for it. Could this apply to you OP? You advocated strongly for this colleague, but are you less pushy when it comes to yourself? Could you look at internal vacancies and apply for something outside your comfort zone?

I dont mind. Your approach is better than the questions I have which does accuse them! I appreciate it.

No, I don't have a mentor, the few senior women from other areas of the business are very full up. I do see the need for me to have one as I feel for the first time stuck and uncertain.

I have been looking for other roles in the organisation and other companies but nothing has come up that would be a fit unless I change direction into more female friendly roles of larger organisations.

I think I also struggle with imposter syndrome now and think my good reviews are them just being nice!

I had to give a presentation on some of my proposals. It kept getting postponed for several months. I was then AOB of a teleconference, but did it. The feedback was great, but it felt very 'Let's focus on Iceni for 20 minutes and praise her', then move back to business.

Have you read Lean In by Sheryl Sandberg?

It's a bit of a trope, nonetheless it's worth a read. It's quick and confirming.

I am a female leader in a nearly all male environment (and industry). I have had to lean in to an extent I never thought was necessary until I made a decision to specifically look for it.

'Taking risks, choosing growth, challenging ourselves, and asking for promotions (with smiles on our faces, of course) are all important elements of managing a career. One of my favorite quotes comes from author Alice Walker, who observed, “The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don’t have any.”'

There is so much I want to say. There's a risk I wrote a whole blood paper.

If a female mentor isn’t available, choose a male one? And practice your IAmRemarkable on him? You need more opportunities, not just AOB!

I'll read it. I'm at the point of thinking fuck it and letting it all flow over me, until I retire, one minute, then wanting to do something the next.

Did you write a paper?

Try not to be too hard on yourself. Think of all those years Albert Einstein wAs unemployed, then glad for the job at the parent office. He started at grade iii and was repeatedly passed over for promotion. 1902 to 1909. You could also look up Emmy Noether one of the greatest mathematician songs of all time, who was largely unrecognised (and unpaid) in her lifetime. Einstein is one of the many men whose work relied on hers.

So how would you deal with your managers manager going to the guy you advocated for (call him Alan) about things in your team so that you no longer control your resource allocation, or Alan rearranging an interview he was doing with me as my 2nd person on the interview panel, to recruit into my team without telling me, or addressing emails to me that start off 'let me be clear, you must do A, I do not expect you see B' about my team and workload?

I've spoken to him once already.

I don’t know how I’d deal with Alan.
It sounds like you did the right thing before when you advocated for the younger him.
But that was then and this is now,
Do you have a job description, schedule of responsibilities? It is possible that whilst you have been working flexibly, he has been given more responsibilities and your role has less responsibility.
If that is the case, can you find out?

for you. This is feminist chat, and I think you are treated differently Because Of The Patriarchy. Alan for instance can look more like the ideas of potential to Older White Men and can more easily network with Older White Men.
But what, precisely you do at work, with 2020 Alan or about 2020 Alan, might need a new post, maybe on another board.