Boycotting the Census?

[Alicethroughtheblackmirror]

In the CTEEA committee meeting today, Joan McAlpine pointed out that 3% of the sample of 2000 members of the public said they would consider not answering a sex question if it were based on self-identity.

Nat Records for Scotland have made a big play about the possibility that a fraction of the trans population might not answer an actual sex question, but they don't seem to have been too worried that women might object, and they don't seem to have tested for women's likely non-response.

Would Mumsnetters consider boycotting the census if the sex question is a de facto gender one such as is currently proposed by both NRS and ONS?

Boycotting the census is an offence. If it asks my gender i do intend to cross out the word gender and write ' biological sex'.

Yes.

Very happy for as many choices of labels to be added as wanted alongside a compulsory biological sex question, but not to co operate with a census that is open to being filled with preferred instead of real information, and the waste of taxpayer time and money on what makes a useful exercise into a highly expensive piece of pointless virtue signalling likely to damage services for all.

And if 'c*s' appears anywhere on it, then I'm not co operating with the political bias and offensive slur against females that it will represent.

What use is the census if you can self identify when knowledge of actual biological sex is what is needed.

I can not answer a question about gender as I do not believe in gender identity or one that asks how I identify since I am rather than identify as female.

Of course they haven’t tested for women’s non response, it hasn’t even entered their heads that we won’t meekly comply, they expect us to do as we’re told and keep our mouths shut.

If there are questions in the census based on anything other than material reality then I will not be answering them. I will not play along with a damaging ideology to appease anyone.

See that Kenneth Gibson pointed out that they use "cisgender" in their submission when it's highly politicised and not understood by most people.

KG said he didn't understand why they can't use men and women!

Whitehouse says they want to use language that is understood and not pejorative! Apparently it's not demeaning!

I will certainly be seriously considering noncompliance. We need more test cases.

I'm in Scotland and did the trial run of the Census. You can't cross anything out, as it's all done online. I would consider boycotting it if they insist on moving away from asking people to answer honestly the biological sex questions. It's time they started listening to the population as a whole, and women in particular, as they have most to lose from skewed collection of data for future planning, as anyone who's read Criado-Perez knows. We need to know female numbers to plan accurately. Nicola Sturgeon pretends she is a feminist and knows such things, but bizarrely seems unable to apply any of it in real life situations her government actually has control over.

Silverhair, how can the census all be done online? Plenty of people (particularly elderly, homeless, or those in poverty) have no internet access or IT skills, and would be excluded. Surely it will be a paper form, as it always has been? In which case, one can cross out, amend, or write objections to offensive terms such as “cis” or “ “gender identity”?

Babdoc They are pushing for most of the responses to be online this time. They'll have to do some paper though.

Yes.

I boycotted the last one due to Lockheed Martin's involvement. Not willing to share my data with a US weapon manufacturer.

Happy to boycott this one, too.

What happens if you don't comply? A fine? Do the thought police turn up?

Yes absolutely - I will not be able to answer a question about gender (i.e. a social construct), I will not agree to being described as "cis", if questions are based on subjective "feeling" rather than "objective" fact then it is a useless exercise and I really don't care if it is an offence not to complete it (not least because the further we go down this awful road the more likely we are to commit commit hate crimes anyway so at some point we all need to say "enough I am now refusing to take part in this farce, prosecute me if you wish".

I've just started to have a google about non completion. It seems the threat is a fine (however conviction rates are low and it seems that the government works on the fear factor to ensure the majority of us complete the census). That said, interestingly, you won't immediately have an issue for failing to complete the full form. It seems that if you fail to complete some questions, someone from the census office will contact you for the information - I think that we could certainly use this to have highlight the issue. Imagine if every GC person did not complete the "gender" question and then had a long conversation about the issue with whoever contacts them to get the information.......I'd like to see how they can help me work out my gender (once I've explained the difference between sex and gender and my issues with self-id).

I've never done a census before. How is it done, do they come to your door and want to come in and ask you questions? Or do you get a link to the census webpage?

Won’t it skew the results though?

Sorry - I think the contact is made in the US. Not sure about the UK - trying to find out!!

If they ask about sex, I'll write female.
If they don't ask about sex but ask for gender, I'll write penguin.

Nothing happened. They sent more than one person round, the last was was a young lad who glared at me really hard, and said it was very serious not to fill it in. But nothing happened.

Of course, I'm not suggesting anyone else should break the law, nor am I saying that nothing will happen.

They hand-deliver the form, Mlou, which I guess you fill in and send back, can't quite remember. (I'm old enough to have done this twice already and forgotten about it.)

Imagine if every GC person did not complete the "gender" question and then had a long conversation about the issue with whoever contacts them to get the information.......I'd like to see how they can help me work out my gender (once I've explained the difference between sex and gender and my issues with self-id).

That might be a better idea, MrsFogi.

I'm considering not boycotting, but not answering the question if the guidance makes it very unclear / unable to answer truthfully.

"Sex is a core demographic variable, of fundamental importance for a range of census users providing vital information for national and local population statistics.

The sex question on the census will be mandatory, so will need to be answered by all. However, for those whose gender is different from their sex registered at birth"

So, is the sex going to be the sex on birth certificates, which are now being re-written, or the sex which was registered at birth?

And how does the ONS intend to interpret this core demographic variable if the underlying dataset is now inherently corrupted?

If the guidance remains the same then I will not be able to answer the 'sex' question.

What happens if you don't comply?

Sweet Fanny Adams. Your data simply isn't counted.

As far as Scotland is concerned, the question is framed as "sex" and it should work alongside the voluntary gender identity question.

The guidance the National Records of Scotland tested was either asking for legal sex (as on b/c) or self ID. They think the latter had a better response from testing with a trans group (mainly recruited through the equality groups). This is the guidance they propose to use. However, 3% of the wider group said they'd refuse to answer a self ID question.

Of concern was the NRS dismissal of concerns raised by very senior individuals in Alice Sullivan's letter, especially as Mr Whitehouse raised the opposing letter as a counter point. This - as Joan McAlpine pointed out - was signed by people from non relevant disciplines. Also of note, he would not answer which groups had pushed for self ID sex.

It's time they started listening to the population as a whole, and women in particular, as they have most to lose from skewed collection of data for future planning, as anyone who's read Criado-Perez knows. We need to know female numbers to plan accurately
Exactly this. If possible I will cross out or leave out. If not possible will boycott.