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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why the Labour Party will not elect a woman

190 replies

PersonaNonGarter · 02/01/2020 00:05

Just seen the Britain Elects poll of Labour members. Keir Starmer ahead on 31% with Rebecca Long Bailey on 20% and Jess Philips on 11%.

The Labour Party is too male. Even though women desperately need representation, Labour continue to romanticise heavy industry (manly) over the needs of eg retail workers (woman’s work). And even the recent Woke intake are steeped in this rose tinted Marxist Down Pit crap that lauds traditionally male roles.

So yeah the candidates might look like the women are putting on a good show. But a man will win.

OP posts:
MoonlightBonnet · 02/01/2020 10:11

That’s a load of misogynist shit about all the women being thick that you seem to have absorbed there @Namechangednorth. Much of the reason we’ll struggle to get a woman leader. Are you both a woman and a member of the Labour Party?

YourOpinionIsNoted · 02/01/2020 10:11

Its not a case of being anti-trans, for goodness sake. You are arguing you want a woman leader. The trans-rights movement thinks it's transphobic to draw any distinction between a woman born with a vagina and a woman born with a penis. So you cannot, by this logic, ask for a woman leader without accepting that a man who now identifies as a woman counts as one.

That's what feminists are objecting too. That the definition of woman now includes man.

Tanith · 02/01/2020 10:12


I am sick of people blaming Thatcher for closing mines. The previous Labour government actually closed MORE mines than she did!

No, she’s blamed for demonising the mining communities - the “enemy within” - in revenge for their part in bringing down the Heath goverment in the 70s.

Charlienotman · 02/01/2020 10:13

The reason labour still talk about the mines and are heavily trade orientated is because they are held up and supported by the unions. It's not about being anti-female as if female orientated work places were to provide the funding you can bet that's who'd be represented.

There are many misogynistic and mysandristic people in the party though, and I hope to see the Tory's stay in power for the foreseeable future.

MoonlightBonnet · 02/01/2020 10:14

Fucking hell. There are no trans women Labour MPs, it’s not a relevant argument.

GlitchStitch · 02/01/2020 10:16

In terms of female political leadership, I'll pin my hopes on Elizabeth Warren at this moment in time.

She doesn't have a hope in hell. I read a comment the other day- 'She lost the presidency the second she put her pronouns in her twitter bio'.

RoyalCorgi · 02/01/2020 10:16

Much as I'd love a female leader, I'd prefer a competent leader. And one, specifically, who is prepared to stand up for women's rights.

All the women who have thrown their hat into the ring so far have parroted the TWAW line. They're useless. Jess Phillip has shown a willingness to listen to gc women, but she was the driving force behind the equalities committee report that advocated reform of the GRA, so she really can't be trusted.

Ironically, Keir Starmer is the only candidate who appears to understand that women have legitimate concerns about allowing men-who-identify-as-women into female spaces. He's also from a working-class background (father was a toolmaker, mother was a nurse) and extremely bright.

JolyonsChickensAreBigots · 02/01/2020 10:16

I agree that leaders should be selected on merit but that Labour are in a position where they appear not to have female candidates of the right calibre is on them too, why are there no strong female candidates around in positions of influence? When in government their history of female cabinet ministers is appalling
Barbara Castle was the last Labour gov minister to do anything for working class women.

ClairesKimono · 02/01/2020 10:16

Fucking hell. There are no trans women Labour MPs, it’s not a relevant argument.

How do you know? Wink

YourOpinionIsNoted · 02/01/2020 10:18

No, but if there were, they would be counted as a female mp. Even if they'd been born and lived as male until the age of 53 and only transitioned (with no hormones or surgery) a couple of years ago.

If you can't see sex, you can't see sexism.

AriadneAufNaxos · 02/01/2020 10:18

Its not a case of being anti-trans, for goodness sake. You are arguing you want a woman leader

The TWAW comment was shoehorned in for no good reason other than making a dig.

I am not arguing for a woman leader and even if I were my objection to those comments would still stand.

ClairesKimono · 02/01/2020 10:19

If you can't see sex, you can't see sexism.

THIS.

LangCleg · 02/01/2020 10:20

Labour speaks about people like me as if we are some kind of pathetic charity case. They want us to sit down and shut up.

Yes. They can't move past we identify as your representation. Until they understand that they are the representation of, not for, the working class, they will not win back their lost voters. The patronising paternalism has been noticed - and rejected - by vast swathes of the electorate, including many women.

noblegiraffe · 02/01/2020 10:21

Why people hate Thatcher for the mines:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_miners%27_strike_(1984–85)

Horrible, horrible time. My FIL still talks with disbelief about the time the police rushed the picketing miners and the miners defended themselves, but the BBC put out edited footage on the news to make it look like the miners attacked the police.

LangCleg · 02/01/2020 10:23

Much as I'd love a female leader, I'd prefer a competent leader. And one, specifically, who is prepared to stand up for women's rights

I genuinely think the PLP doesn't have a worthwhile candidate who is both competent and capable of building a winning coalition of voters. I don't think it understands the various directions of political travel - materialist feminism, post-liberalism, town vs country, etc at all. That is the sad state of today's Labour party.

YourOpinionIsNoted · 02/01/2020 10:23

Absolutely, Lang. Labour are dripping with "we know best and the silly electorate just don't know enough to agree with us / they were so gullible and stupid they let themselves be fooled by Boris' slogans".

They can get fucked.

EwwSprouts · 02/01/2020 10:40

The reason labour still talk about the mines and are heavily trade orientated is because they are held up and supported by the unions. It's not about being anti-female as if female orientated work places were to provide the funding you can bet that's who'd be represented.

Might apply to Unite but 3/4 of UNISON members are female. Both have approx 1.3m members.

LangCleg · 02/01/2020 10:46

Might apply to Unite but 3/4 of UNISON members are female. Both have approx 1.3m members.

Yes, what this responds to is nonsense. Since deindustrialisation, unions most often have majority women membership. PCS is another. And their leaderships have pretty much done fuck all for their low paid women, preferring to triangulate on behalf of Labour instead - and look where that's got us.

FloralFestiveBunting · 02/01/2020 10:50

My dad still talks about the time he met an off duty policeman when walking the dog, many moons ago, who idly boasted of the extra cash he'd got to go and deal with the miners. Dad walked away in disgust, as a man who was heavily involved in the Unions and worked with Alan Johnson, etc. and would practically spit if you mentioned Thatcher. He'd never voted anything but Labour in his life, but he called Corbyn a jumped up shop steward with weasel words. He always said to me the fetishizing of the working class by politicos always missed that we don't work in mines or supermarkets as an aspiration, and only ever want our kids to work in those kinds of jobs. We're working class because we know the value of graft to get on, not because we're poor and need handouts.

I don't know how he voted in the recent election, but I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if it was Conservative.

Namechangednorth · 02/01/2020 10:51

@MoonlightBonnet

That’s a load of misogynist shit about all the women being thick that you seem to have absorbed there

Not absorbed. Observed....like a lot of the electorate. I cringe when I see RLB being interviewed and the answers she gives. Potential prime minister material ... laughable

Unfortunately you probably espouse why Labour lost so badly as not facing up to the reality. I suppose you think that the policies of the dear leader Jeremy were fine, just need to change the leader for a female version. Well if that happens it will look like no effective opposition to Johnson and several more election thrashings.

Idealism is fine but not if it delivers zilch

LangCleg · 02/01/2020 11:01

I helped with flying pickets during the miners strike. The less I say about the police in that dispute, the better.

MnMShad · 02/01/2020 11:05

Absolutely, Lang. Labour are dripping with "we know best and the silly electorate just don't know enough to agree with us / they were so gullible and stupid they let themselves be fooled by Boris' slogans".

Narcs and echoes!

MnMShad · 02/01/2020 11:09

Yes, what this responds to is nonsense. Since deindustrialisation, unions most often have majority women membership. PCS is another. And their leaderships have pretty much done fuck all for their low paid women, preferring to triangulate on behalf of Labour instead - and look where that's got us.

The Unions don't believe in science, they don't represent biological material reality.

CHRISTonAyamaha · 02/01/2020 11:27

...Long post...

You cannot elect a woman leader just for the sake of electing a woman leader.

The fact that Jess Phillips is considered a viable choice as leader shows the illiteracy of the political debate in this country. She is completely unsuited to lead anything - in the private sector she would be a supervisor at a pound store or similar at best. People who constantly root for her never even know what her policy stances are, other than "I will never shut up about feminism". What does this even mean? What does she believe is the way forward on railways, utilities, the media?

Labour has only ever had one person elected prime minister in the last 45 yrs - Blair. This means that the issue isn't Labour, but the country. Until that is honestly looked at, and questions critically asked about why voters repeatedly prefer to vote Tory, then even with the next leader the party is likely to lose again.

The problem with the last election wasn't Corbyn per se, but with how politics just is in this country. How it is covered in the media for instance. Before him, the print and broadcast media went ballistic about Ed Miliband. Red Ed, they quickly christened him. They called him not just a socialist but a marxist. Remember the attacks on his father - "The man who hated Britain". Imagine Ed being called a marxist. The press ran endless unofficial polls asking people whether Ed was "weird". The TV channels did endless voxpops asking people on the street whether Ed was weird. They painted him as a weak, weird, marxist. Even The Guardian had endless opinion pieces of how we got the wrong brother. This sort of thing becomes embedded in people's minds. And the sandwich. Don't forget the bacon sandwich. Why? Because he had said he was going to fight vested interests and reform the press. They didn't like it.

The only way Blair, again the only leader to win in the last 45 yrs, won, was to jump into bed with the media barons, eventually becoming godfather to Murdoch's child. Imagine that. You can't tax the rich by cosying up to them, and you can't fund public services without taxing the rich. That is the catch. Labour can't win on taxing the rich, so it can't win on funding public services, so it has to move to the "centre", that part of the political spectrum, the wilderness of ambiguity that stands for, actually, not much. It might have worked during the Blair years, but now, after the torching of public services started by Cameron and Osborne, a lot more funding is needed.

Also the cultural war we have been in for the last couple of decades. The campaign to monster migrants. "Uncontrolled immigation/they're coming to take your jobs/your homes/your country/they're raping your women/they breed like rats so they will quickly outnumber you/other similar headlines" that the papers run weekly. The minute you go down this route people will vote against their own interests each time.

Electing a woman leader isn't going to solve any of this.

One thing would-be labour voters need to understand is that the right have always been proficient in making the left embarassed of its leaders. This has been one of their tools for decades. Other than all I have mentioned above, remember Brown was painted as incompetent, Kinnock at the time as a joke - remember the scene at the beach when the waves came in and partially knocked him and his wife over? How many times was that played on the telly? Remember Michael Foot's donkey jacket? Until Labour find a way to counter all this, and honest journalists have some introspection about how politics is covered this will carry on for good.

It is far more complicated than, we need a woman/Corbyn was toxic/working class voters/whatever is the theory this week.

WrathoFaeKlop · 02/01/2020 11:27

I'm a working-class Northern woman,
Labour speaks about people like me as if we are some kind of pathetic charity case. They want us to sit down and shut up.

That's exactly it isn't it? GeordieTerf

Nobody chooses to live from day to day with no money or prospects.

Get a grip Labour, ffs, people want a better life for themselves and their communities, not a system to keep them down and no clear vision that enables them to live and thrive.