Went to mass today...

[Genvonklinkerhoffen]

Because Catholics are supposed to go once a year or something. The priest read a letter from the bishop that talked a lot about marriage, fair enough. Then it mentioned the "tricky issues around gender".

I spent the rest of mass wondering if a transman could be a catholic priest or not.

I suspect not, sure I read something about only recognising birth sex recently (another occasional church-goer RC here).

They sort of can. I have a trans nephew (ftm) and he gets to wear a dog collar and everything but isn’t a real priest. It’s confusing.....

I think that is one of the exceptions, like primogeniture.

I think that is one of the exceptions, like primogeniture of course... massive eye roll.

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48584892
Sorry, I don't know how to do a clicky link

So it’s possible to change sex, except when it’s not possible to change sex.

Right.

Confession is the one you are supposed to go to at least once a year. Mass is every Sunday and holy day of obligation
AFAIK Catholic Church says sex and not gender so no a transman could not be a priest because not biologically male. If convincing might manage to fool the seminary director though I suppose

@Serenschintte ah that's me into hell then. Thanks for the heads up.

I wonder, the Catholic Church is so globally influential, could this be the way forward for sex not gender.

I wonder if that means a trans woman can be a priest since they are biologically male?

How many cakes can you have and eat at the same time

The Church, and the Catholic one especially, is one of the main driving forces behind the oppression of women over the centuries.
But if they believe sex and gender are different....strange bedfellows.

No a trans man can't be a Roman Catholic priest.
( I should think, and might be wrong on this, that in theory there would be nothing stopping a trans woman becoming one, but in reality they would not be seen as a suitable candidate for ordination and so would not be accepted,)

Confession once a year, yes. Attendance at Mass is supposed to be every week, either Saturday evening or any Sunday mass. The yearly component of Mass is that you're supposed to receive communion if in a state of grace, at least once a year.

Disclaimer: I am a bad Catholic and went to and obligatory mass for the first time in some months on the third Sunday in Advent. I am a passable Catholic because I didn't receive communion as i hadn't been to Confession in the interim.

I am still a Catholic, though, and one of the reasons is that, despite the shitey misogyny, there's still a good chunk of Catholic teaching that upholds material reality and human dignity, and I'll take snatches of sanity where I can find them atm.

@FloralFestiveBunting oh dear. Well, it made me feel better and I did some charitable
Stuff afterwards so hopefully it's what Jesus would have wanted despite my laxity 😬

Snatches of sanity welcome.

The Vatican recently issued a statement saying that gender ideology is opposed to both "faith and reason". catholicherald.co.uk/news/2019/06/12/us-and-english-bishops-welcome-vatican-document-on-gender-ideology/ I'm an ex RC, but have degrees in theology and used to teach REvin RC schools. There is much to criticise in the RCC and I'm happy to have left it - but it's only fair to acknowledge that it actually says some very sensible things at times about issues such as social justice and now gender.

Of course if they'd listened to some radical feminists they'd have got the sex/gender thing correct in the document - but we all left the RCC decades ago.

Once a Catholic always a Catholic- Baptism is an indelible mark on the soul that cannot be washed away. It’s a club that you cannot leave

Essentially, men can become women and have access to everything women have because Trans Women Are Women.

But women can't become men and do things like become priests or leapfrog their brothers to inherit the stately pile because some naughty women might take advantage of it and pretend to be trans just for the privileges.

Men wouldn't do that, obviously.

Not quite true Seren - I'm technically excommunicated as I joined another religious group (Quakers). It's called excommunication in the "internal forum". As distinct from in the "external forum" - ie when the pope decrees it.

It applies when you do something that is so contrary to canon law (which I studied at Uni for 3yrs) that you put yourself outside the RC community and you should not take communion (excommunicated). Formally renouncing your Catholicism and joining someone else achieves that.

Any of my priest friends who gave me communion would be breaking canon law and technically in trouble.

Not that I'd want to take communion as it means nothing to me and I'm not a RC.

#nopedefinitelynotacatholic

diane can I msg you a couple of theology questions? No worries if not x

Transmen definitely cant become RC priests. The church would still see them as female and thats a big no no.

Pope Francis has ruffled feathers by being tolerant about homosexuality but he is still adamant that women cant become priests.

The Catholic church also wouldn't take a transwoman as a priest because trying to change sex is against nature (for the same reason they are against IVF).

Also caring about external appearances is not part of the job description. I think to be a priest its a pretty big sacrifice becoming celibate and dedicated to service of God and the church.

Don't know about CofE, they are pretty keen on being woke.

Also loving OPs username I am now imagining Helga in Allo Allo shouting General Von Klinkerhoffen!

The CofE already has Trans priests.

Sure @bingowingsmcgee

Hope you enjoyed the feast of the Holy Family

Pope Francis released a teaching guide in June 2018 called “Male and Female he created them” which is all about gender ideology - rejecting it, which upset the trans lobby. Especially as it was released in Pride month!

A transman wouldn’t be accepted for ordination though I know many priests are concerned that if they ask engaged couples about their birth sex or if they decline to marry a couple on these grounds that they will be done for hate speech.

While the Vatican talks the right talk on this, sadly Stonewall has managed to influence the Catholic Education Service in the UK and the CES will not give Catholic schools any official advice or guidelines about trans pupils, instead referring them other secular schools to copy “best practice”. Therefore you cannot be confident that your child will not have to share toilets/changing rooms in a Catholic school.

One secondary school in London sent children home with a fuzzy letter about being kind to those whom God has given the wrong bodies and I’m hearing from a number of concerned, disgruntled parents about the gender nonsense being taught to their kids in Catholic schools.

reminds me of the myth of Pope Joan