What is the TRA name for biological women?

[NotTerfNorCis]

It's not 'woman' because they include males in that.

It's not 'biological woman' or 'adult human female' for the same reason.

It's not 'cis woman' because that excludes women who don't identify as women.

It's not 'afab' because, first, that's an adjective not a noun, and second, it means 'assigned female' - so technically, a male person could be assigned female at birth.

That leaves no word at all for biological woman. Isn't that a big problem? TRAs and TRA supporters - can you answer this one?

For a TRA or TRA supporter, why would that be a problem?

It's a category that exists in the real world. It matters, even if TRAs choose to have a blind spot.

Would they approve of 'a member of the female sex' ? Includes trans men.

Their view would be that in most situations sex is irrelevant and only gender matters. But if for some reason it is necessary to refer to female anatomy or biology, then they would use a term relating to the particular bit of biology in question, e.g. menstruator, gestator, cervix-haver, etc.

Of course, I think this is ridiculous, but I don't think TRAs would consider it much of a gotcha.

In the words of the lovely Clare Jane Jones (salutes) it amounts to: "you sit over there and keep your little lady mouths shut".

Like many things, everyone knows what it is, what it's called and exactly what it looks like, but no one is supposed to talk about it. It's not kind .

Michelle, quite right.

I think the word would be "cis".
Because if you don't identify as "trans" then you are automatically "cis". And it doesn't whether or not you identify as "cis", the fact that you are "not trans" means automatic belonging to that category. And you can only be "agender" if you believe that gender identity exists as a concept. If you believe that you do not have a gender BUT also believe that gender identity is a load of bollocks you are still "cis". Only believers can identify their way out of having a gender identity.

It is AFAB.

Sometimes they want to complain about women including those who identify as non binary or gender queer.

They then refer to them as afab.

No it's not cis because that excludes lots of females who don't ID as cis.

Avocado has it right- there isn't one any more. If you want to talk about smears you address cervix Havers etc (and so what if loads of the target audience don't understand that this means them).

Female is in the process of being changed in meaning as well though.

Quite a few transwomen refer to themselves as female/ biologically female.

But they don’t claim they were ‘assigned’ female at birth.

No they do use coercively assigned though when they say it, and I've not seen afab in regular use for months and months.

I don't think they will use this at all as it still recognises there is such a category and it excludes transwomen.

Quite a few transwomen refer to themselves as female/ biologically female.

Yes that's why adult human female and biological woman/female are out.

It is AFAB

But that could include cases where parents were deceptive about the sex for some reason, or the baby had ambiguous genitalia and was later found to be male.

'Assigned' is not the same as 'observed'. It implies something arbitrary.

there isn't one any more

... if you want to erase something that exists, refuse to name it.

No it's not cis because that excludes lots of females who don't ID as cis

The point is that you don’t have to ID as cis to be cis. According to TRAs cis just means “not trans” so you are automatically cis if you don’t ID as trans.

TRAs consider intersex people who claim a sex other than the one recorded to be trans.

Of course assigned suggests something arbitrary. A major component of their ideology is to undermine the concept of biological sex.

Well yes.

I said that on here about 5 years ago and a regular male FWR goader told me not to be so silly

You can be erroneously assigned female at birth though due to a DSD.

Caster Semenya was assigned female, for example.

Less likely to happen nowadays (being unable to ascertain sex on a scan/being born with ambiguous genitalia will indicate the need for a karyotype before sex is declared) but still a problem in parts of the world that don’t have accessible state funded healthcare).

So AFAB doesn’t actually mean biological female either

There isn’t a word. That’s the point, isn’t it? “Welcome to your erasure” and all that.

That leaves no word at all for biological woman

That’s the whole point. For them to pretend and make the world believe that group doesn’t exist which means there is no such thing as sexual discrimination and all the laws to protect women go out the window meaning the men that want to harm them can without consequence. As we are seeing.

It is AFAB
I supposed they might say women who were AFAB. But just AFAB could include trans men so couldn’t be used alone.

TRAs use AFAB to refer to biological women.

They don’t care that it is inaccurate because they don’t care about a. biology, b. Women, c. Intersex people.

The confusion on this thread is that people seem to be interpreting ‘what word do TRAs use for women’ to Mean ‘what word do TRAs use for women that would be useful for women?’

They are TRAs. They need a term for women that allows them to group women together so that they can be misogynistic. They are not going to erase women to the extent that they can no longer directly collectively abuse them.

"cervix havers' or 'people with vaginas'. There is no word now. Enjoying ur erasure? [as the lovely 'Lawyer by day, Glamourpuss by night' / comedian / LOJ's incessantly and absurdly pouting friend would say]

AFAB is supposed to include trans men.

Coercively assigning labels/ compelling identity conformity is wrong unless it's a trans person doing it. Then somehow that's ok.

No, doesn't compute. And my bullshit/confused logic/this makes no sense but do it because I say so is already full up since I live with a toddler. Sorry 'bout that.

There can't be special rules to privilege some in society while everyone else has to obey. I know that's the fantasy, but you need the other people to actually co operate and go along with this instead of getting completely pissed off.

We seem to be in a state of flux at the moment, but eventually health orgs, stats collectors and others will need a term that means adult human female as well as one that means adult human male. Maybe that'll be the point when the madness of genderism is exposed.