Times article about Debbie Hayton 'Trans women are men' T-shirt

[NotAssigned]

Article here

Including this quote: "Professor Robin Lovell-Badge, head of the laboratory of stem cell biology and developmental genetics at the Francis Crick Institute, who discovered the gene that determines sex in mammals, said: “In the UK, I think most [people] would use ‘sex’ to refer to anatomical appearance and ‘gender’ to ways of behaviour.”
To a scientist, he said, anatomy could appear male, female or somewhere in between, but a man who transitioned could be said to change sex."

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“To a scientist, he said, anatomy could appear male, female or somewhere in between, but a man who transitioned could be said to change sex."

That’s very careful, (and cowardly). “Could be said to”, is just a way of saying, “I don’t believe it, but I’m not willing to be honest”. Or, I suppose, I see women as so insubstantial that there’s no reason a man can’t be a woman if he says so.

A man who wears a nappy, “could be said to be a baby”. A dog wearing a shark suit, “could be said to be an ocean predator”. A squirrel falling out of a tree, “could be said to be flying”. Except, not, you know, in the real world of facts.

Scientists seem strong on the ethics of science, only until it interferes with their misogyny.

That Debbie Hayton is being accused of hate speech for speaking her own truth, sees us entering into the Year of Total Batshittery.

The batshittery on Twitter is out of this world. l've only been on there 2 days and I've never witnessed so many unhinged concentated in one place. Debbie is smart, eloquent and passionate. A clear rational voice in toxic swamp.

Confused by Lovell-badge. Does he mean if the appearance of a man's anatomy changes the he could appear to have changed sex because we commonly use the term sex to refer to differences in anatomy?

Even if you accept this statement (and I am not convinced it hasn't been edited), 80% of trans women who retain their Male genitals would not have changed sex. Neither would most transmen.

To a scientist, he said, anatomy could appear male, female or somewhere in between, but a man who transitioned could be said to change sex

I'm a scientist and I very much doubt I would ever say that.

If a man was in an accident that resulted in his external genitalia having to be removed, we wouldn't call him a woman or any less of a man. I thought that stuff was dictated by XX or XY and that the other stuff is gender. I don't usually venture into these topics as I know I'm not well informed enough but I do feel like the world has gone slightly mad.

Exactly. That's why I wondered if the quote was poorly edited and some of it was missing. It is very careful wording - almost as if discussing a thought experiment. But it feels as if the end of the quote is missing that would make it clearer that people don't actually in real life change sex.

Barnacle Geese were said to be fish by the RC Church, so people could eat them on Fridays.

crissmuss, really? Wow. The lengths that people will go to deny reality for their own pleasure.

A man who wears a nappy, “could be said to be a baby”. A dog wearing a shark suit, “could be said to be an ocean predator”. A squirrel falling out of a tree, “could be said to be flying”. Except, not, you know, in the real world of facts.

I know it's a serious subject but this gave me a much needed laugh this morning!

a man who transitioned could be said to change sex

The three main responses to JKR's intervention have been:

1. cheering and relief;
2. rage and violent threats; and
3. utter and craven cowardice.

The one I wouldn't have predicted is 3). Well done Professor Robin Lovell-Badge for demeaning yourself.

Barnacle Geese were said to be fish by the RC Church, so people could eat them on Fridays.

Cocoa/hot chocolate doesn't count as a hot drink for Mormons.

Debbie is awesome, as is Mir and all the rest of the men who use their male privilege to speak up for us- it’s the bare minimum any man should do.

While this isn’t central to how trans ideology effects women’s rights I do think it’s equally important that the public discussion also takes into account how trans ideology appropriates the experience of transwomen like Debbie and Mir and those living quietly getting on with their lives while not imposing on women. They must have lived through times where real transphobia was a possible threat to them while struggling with gender identity disorder and along come men who feel like a woman on the weekends to trample over their experience and call them truscum.

The article seems to be misrepresenting what Maya said again though, which seems to be the same manipulation and gas lighting on here and other sm about her case. I hope she addresses this with the times because from reading the judgement no where did I see her express what this article claims.

They also criticised an article for the Morning Star in which Hayton wrote: “Trans women are biologically male — in fact being male is the sole qualifying criterion to be a trans woman.”

Bingo!

The three main responses to JKR's intervention have been:

1. cheering and relief;
2. rage and violent threats; and
3. utter and craven cowardice.

The one I wouldn't have predicted is 3). Well done Professor Robin Lovell-Badge for demeaning yourself.

This. But I cba with the bolding on the bullets...

OK - if Debbie's t-shirt is hate-speech because it denies non-binaries, then surely theirs are as well - not a word about NBs.

What are barnacle geese? And how could anyone get pleasure from eating such a creature?

If you look into the edibility of goose barnacles vs barnacle geese you are going to get very confused.

But I still think either would make a nice change from turkey.

What are barnacle geese?

They're just a type of migratory goose, with an odd legend attached. You could view it as medieval pseudoscience - someone claimed to have seen geese emerging from a particular type of barnacle. The myth was dispelled by proper observation.

What are barnacle geese?

Non-binary geese who ID as crustaceans on Friday. If they were sensible, they’d only ID as fish like on days beginning with T and thus stave off becoming snacks.

But really I can’t speak for them, as I’m neither duck or crustacean, so I’ve no business talking.

I’ll cancel mysel.....

nauticant
Neither geese, nor turkey nor barnacles...., but I love how much eclectic knowledge there is in this establishment.....

Does anyone have a share token for the article promoted below the one about Debbie? The one about being kind?

I'm surprised Debbie hasn't been kicked off the committee before. She occupies one of two positions reserved for trans people yet her views are clearly not representative of the community she is supposed to be fighting for.

If they were sensible, they’d only ID as fish like on days beginning with T and thus stave off becoming snacks

But really I can’t speak for them, as I’m neither duck or crustacean, so I’ve no business talking.

Get back in your lane.