Laurence Fox (actor) Stands With Maya

[CumannNamBan]

Actor, who played Hathaway, from the TV drama Lewis

Yes, I would say he gets a kick out of making people ticked off about this stuff. It probably doesn't win anyone over but it does perhaps make it easier for others to say what they think.

He reminds me a lot of my grandfather, actually. He'd have had a field day with this stuff.

Any voice is welcome.

Laurence Fox is no friend of women. He just hates everyone who might question whether the white, public school educated, son of an acting dynasty might - just might - have had a wee bit of an advantage in his chosen field of....acting. He's pathetic. His bleating about, "Not being able to help who I am, waah! " on Question Time was embarrassing.

I bloody hate woke people, and as a non white woman from a working class background, I bloody hate people who cry racism/sexism/class prejudice for everything that goes wrong in their lives. However, as someone who has also had a great deal of educational and financial success, I recognise that, going forward, I now have a huge advantage in many ways over the vast majority of people, irrespective of sex or race, and so will my children. To deny that I do would be ridiculous. Fox and the Triggernometry men represent the ridiculous position of ignoring their own personal histories (particularly in Fox's case) and that of white men as a whole; in their complete denial that anyone suffers any kind of discrimination or disadvantage, a belief that actually, it's women and people of colour who really hold all the power cards, and that white men are in fact at the bottom of the pile.

Trans radicalism is stupid, because it flies in the face of science, human history and material reality. That people from across the political spectrum can see this is great, but it's not because there's some big political ideology that's being wrangled over. The mistake of the GC is to give any credence to the notion that there is. Being GC doesn't mean being a feminist ally. By getting all excited when any Tom Dick or Harry says something GC just allows the woke left wing to scream that you ally yourselves with the right and all that entails.

All the "sexual power" vis a vis women stuff that Douglas Murray comes out with is just Incel talk.

And as if we needed a reminder that comments like Fox's, as Boris, as Farrage, feed into the unchanged level of racism in this country.

The woman who challenged him is now on the receiving end of abuse and racism www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/jan/18/question-time-clash-lecturer-tells-of-hate-mail

I'm not on twitter so dont know if he received any criticism or abuse.

I don't like people getting stupid Twitter threats.

I don't have a problem with people being critical of the idea that something like the press's attitude to MM is about racism. Maybe it is, but there is plenty of reason to attribute it to other things and not many reasons to attribute it to racism.

Is it racist to suggest that was the cause? I don't know, in a way I think it may itself be part of a very racialised way of looking at people. I don't tend to take the view that racism has to be the something that happens on the side of the more powerful and can't come from the marginalised, I would say rather that if an ideology sees race in an essentialised way that it is racist. I think its more accurate and also gives a more useful picture of how racism works in societies.

But maybe more importantly in this context, I think the reason a guy like Fox has so many people following his Twitter when he says stuff like this is because more and more people are seeing that kind of generalisation as negative and even backwards.

I'm not sure what you are saying, Goosefoot . Is it racist to suggest that the press were racist against MM? Or racist to suggest privileged white men like Fox don't understand what it is like to be a black woman under intense scrutiny and constant criticism for ridiculous things like avocados and not wanting to haul herself in front of the world's press 5 minutes after giving birth, and wondering whether she'd still get those attacks if she was white (which is what the academic on QT was getting at, I think)?

Yes racism can come from the marginalised. But without any power structure behind it, it has no teeth, and very little relevance other than on the purely personal level, or at the most, a community level.

Which ideology are you speaking of?

The reason Fox has so many people following him is because he is appealing to the same demographic as Trump, Farage, Boris. These are all the people the left have apparently failed whilst too busy gushing over woke ideologies. I have a great deal of sympathy with some of that sentiment, whist at the same time, the lack of personal responsibility can be tiresome.

Fox, as is the case with the others, is a false prophet. He doesn't give a fuck about the poor, white, working class. He probably despises his new disciples, because Fox has no ideology, Fox is about Fox, and Fox is a classic example of a man who is inured to his inherent sense of superiority, whilst also probably hating himself, because deep down he knows he is the product of immense privilege and nepotism. I mean, why exactly did he get airtime on QT? What has he done to deserve that?

I'm not sure what you are saying, Goosefoot . Is it racist to suggest that the press were racist against MM? Or racist to suggest privileged white men like Fox don't understand what it is like to be a black woman under intense scrutiny and constant criticism for ridiculous things like avocados and not wanting to haul herself in front of the world's press 5 minutes after giving birth, and wondering whether she'd still get those attacks if she was white (which is what the academic on QT was getting at, I think)? Yes racism can come from the marginalised. But without any power structure behind it, it has no teeth, and very little relevance other than on the purely personal level, or at the most, a community level.

I don't actually agree that racist ideology, when embraced by the marginalised, is lacking teeth. I think it has a significant effect in maintaining a society that accepts racist ideology. Identity politics is a racist ideology at its core and it has captured the political left and especially academia and as long as that is the case those institutions will be dominated by racism. That non-white people like this academic hold that ideology strengthens its legitimacy significantly.

In the past, I don't think I'd have called someone who takes that perspective a racist in a personal sense, but I'm getting to the point where I think it needs to be said.

But yes, I am saying that I think that it's reasonable to query whether MM's treatment in the press is about racism when academics like that make that claim. Particularly when they are really making the claim in a non-specific way - she was treated badly by the press therefor it must be racism, not because of specific things that were said and done. The press treatment of Harry and Merkle was pretty predictable without any reference to her ethnicity, it's not like they don't have form for setting up that ind of situation.

Do you apply the same standards to feminism and the notion that women are held back by the patriarchy?

Gawd. He's an actor and a good self promoter.

He genuinely doesn't like the excesses of Woke (I concur) and he is in denial about structural power relations (I do not concur).

He's created an online persona of Witty Edgelord both to mock the excesses of Woke and to promote himself. As the #notmynigel says, "He's a right wanker but you have to admit he's a funny one".

Until the Woke get a sense of humour, they're always going to lose out to the Witty Edgelord. People like to laugh.

Which aspects of feminism should we be laughing at?

Which aspects of feminism should we be laughing at?

Point. Head. Sailed.

I, personally, am more likely to poke fun at edgelords. What with liking a bit of mockery of my opponents, an' all. That said, po-faced puritans of any stripe are also often in my crosshairs.

But isn't feminism ideology just another branch of woke? And therefore to be mocked. Or are you confining the notion of woke to racism?

Just to be clear, I'm not particularly invested in any of it, I find most people banging on about perceived injustices a bit pathetic. I'm just trying to understand the push back against "woke" and why the position of the GC or anyone else is any better.

In the current climate, we could probably do without Fox on our side.

Having said that, this made me laugh:

The actor Laurence Fox has admitted that he once dumped a girlfriend for being “too woke” and said that he refuses to date women under 35 because of their politically correct views.

Well, that's something. Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

For Fox, feminism and woke are one and the same thing.

As long as he's not singing about it where I can hear

"Yes racism can come from the marginalised. But without any power structure behind it, it has no teeth"

Ive been trying to find a way to say this without it coming across wrongly

Its not racism in this case but my DH as a disabled man did experience disabilism from two people who work for the housing association we rent from (theres the power structure there) one was from the Muslim community and one from the LGBT community. Both marginalised groups. But this example shows that just because you are in or a part of a marginalised group yourself it doesnt mean that you would recognise that someone is in another marginalised group.

Sorry but i cant think of a better way of putting it and ive tried.

He’s a shit stirring publicity seeker. Nothing more in it.

Because black and working class actors are known for the huge platform they have access to before they became famous...

I read a few interviews with Fox while he was married to Billie Piper and he occasionally said things that seemed a touch possessive. Which chimed with things that she said after their divorce about control in relationships.

I get what he meant, when he said he couldn't help what he is (as in straight white man) but that sort of thinking often cements the idea that TW are not W because the 'I know who I am and I will not apologise for it' inherent in what he said, allows some men to easily 'other' men who are more feminine as a bit deviant, thus wanting to keep them away from 'their women'. It feels very patriarchal to me.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/02/20/laurence-fox-julie-walters-christopher-eccleston-working-class_n_9280758.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAANfXyWNKTczxg7UuZTnS2kvWGLk7eUkqr3mICQ4GDUJzcWPpY8RnEewsYEx4SUqVw0kWUoVdz21p5ejmXhPNAPrQuO3sr4DkjnoEm_SmKoV760ZfpLjK-9w1babDDljT18FVKYBUQcF_A5n91ZGFtNKAPPcliGnu0b_Ez2zwCHjl

"His bleating about, "Not being able to help who I am, waah! " on Question Time was embarrassing."

He is spot on though. People are sick of it. Being told they are racist. Being told they are privileged for who they are. Being patronized by the woke.

And do tell, what did that lecturer have to add male for? This was about race, him being male had not much to do with that, but it was just another buzzword she could use to lob at him.

Laurence Fox is right about Maya and he was right on Question Time too.... but overall he seems a bit of a twat.

As an aside, between this and Ricky Gervais' monologue at the Golden Globes, I'm wondering if this is the beginnning of the end of 'woke' culture?

I dunno iced. It’s like a power kick for a lot of people especially men

They get the chance to call women terfs. When they mean bitch or whatever insult they couldn’t get away with in SM before wokeness became a thing

Now they can say it and be praised for it

Did anyone see him on Celebrity Gogglebox? I took against him on that and actually had to turn over when he came on. I think he’s a knob. I don’t particularly care that he’s gender critical. Stopped clock and all that.

@FreedomOf

I barely registered this guy's existence until the storm in a teacup erupted last week, and I did a bit of googling and yeah, he seems like a knob. Borderline MRA and very likely a Tory.

Which doesn't mean he's wrong about Maya or about 'woke' culture though. But yeah, stopped clock is right.