But HOW CAN YOU TELL

[KatieAlcock]

I have written something about how we perceive the difference between men and women.
I know you weren't really in any doubt, but just in case you are a little confused.

medium.com/@katieja/but-how-can-you-tell-7901324d0919

Criss - I was trying to teach my DSs to take a top off like that and they just didn't get it! I'd never noticed a m/f split before!!

The male hauls it over his head from the shoulders

Wouldn’t you need really long arms for this to work?

I know a horse that’s most likely a TERF.

My rabbit could tell. She liked females but growled at men!

Thanks.

Views divided over whether dogs can tell by pheremones or voice pitch, but they definitely know.

(You think it would make them more selective when it comes to leg-humping, but apparently not.)

In archaeology they always mention the musculature on the brow bone being a key male/female marker.

In fact, this Wikipedia article on facial feminisation surgery is a good jumping off point for all the ways we can tell male/female from a face.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_feminization_surgery

I’m actually surprised this is still allowed in the Wiki article: “Faces contain secondary sex characteristics that make male and female faces readily distinguishable”

In archaeology they always mention the musculature on the brow bone being a key male/female marker.

There's an Ostelogy professor at Bristol Uni who's made TV progs about that.

Smell.

Gait.

Attitude. Verbal, physical and culturally - written.

Can't believe that video is from 2013. The whole world is now being steered from a Portland

This is fabulous and I will be using it often. Thanks, Katie!

Also: boak at rats and death smell!

If there wasn't a difference between men's and women's physiology, FFS wouldn't be a thing. Nor would the reddit subgroup exist where you can upload an audio file and get people to tell you how well you pass. Nor would classes and endless online groups teach you how to change the way you walk and move and speak.

And despite all of these, we are supposed to accept that men who who transition have no physical differences to women when it comes to prison, sports and changing rooms.

How can anyone not see the cognitive dissonance in that?

Great article, thank you.

I came across a transwoman clothes shopping recently. Smartly dressed, quietly browsing. Surprised myself how instantly I registered something - not sure what - then clocked this person as male. How they moved, frame, gait, everything. Never thought much about gut instinct until now.

No. You have to hang around the women's loos with a birth certificate checker. True fact. Jo told me.

And I have only just realised that about the shirt. My dh has stupidly long arms and looks utterly ridiculous doing it so i really should have noticed before. I wonder why it is? Luckily this is MN so I expect someone who has a PhD in upper body osteoefficiency in garment divestment will be along in a moment to explain.

Luckily this is MN so I expect someone who has a PhD in upper body osteoefficiency in garment divestment will be along in a moment to explain.

I think it's more a case of what Wee Andy said in Gregory's Girl about why gurrrels could nae play futbah, because their tats get in the way.

The male hauls it over his head from the shoulders, the female grabs the hem with her arms crossed and lifts.

Our boobs get in the way of the front hem as it gets hauled up our front. Plus, feminine socialisation tells us we must look good all the time, so we generally dislike what dragging a shirt backwards over our heads does to our hair.

So both physical (sex) and social (gender) reasons.

Luckily this is MN so I expect someone who has a PhD in upper body osteoefficiency in garment divestment will be along in a moment to explain.

Ooh ooh! Me, me!

Okay, not true, but at a guess I’d say it’s to do with breasts and differences in construction of female and male shirts.

With buttoned shirts a woman would typically unbutton completely then remove, as female shirts (blouses) are often fitted. Men’s, not fitted so cuffs and collar unbuttoned, off comes the shirt.

Even with t-shirts a woman will be more likely to remove clothing in a way that exposes front first or front and back simultaneously so as not to have the shirt hitch under the breasts. Men have so concerns so can swiftly remove from back first.

Just a theory.

Also, Portlandia is now on my Watch List.

*men have no such concerns

The removing a top thing is remarkable! I just asked my DH and he pulled the front over his face, then grabbed the back and pulled it off. I crossed my arms and lifted from the bottom. Neither of us had any idea how the other was doing what they were doing. How have we learned to do this differently?! (I think the ‘female’ way gets around boobs keeping the top anchored down and means less hair interference.)

Transwidow here. You can just tell, sorry outraged deluded ones. My ex-husband has spent a fortune on clothing, make-up, hair, voice coaching and the like and is instantly recognisably male. So many things, gait, face structure and that's before he opens his mouth. It's always always bleedin obvious. Bizarrely it's often because of the excessive make-up and loud clothing. I've never seen a middle-aged transitioner dress and groom as I do (normal, practical working woman). Often it's the frilly sexualised embracing of the uber-'female' that is the giveaway.

Has anyone seen that video going round twitter where women can lift a chair when they're at right angles to a wall and men can't?

Something to do with the way our hips work I believe. It's really interesting because it just demonstrates that even if you take away the muscle stuff, our bones and the ways we are put together are quite simply different

That's so true about runners nauticant. I was watching the finish of a half marathon earlier this year. There was a final straight of about 700m to the end. When the runners first came round the corner of the lake they were just small dots. The first female runner came in at about 7th place but when she rounded the corner, I knew immediately that she was a woman.

I know a horse that’s most likely a TERF.

Whoa, there!

(It's panto season, right?)

Quite a lot of TERFY horses aren't there? Certainly TERFY dogs.

Do you think they are funded by the Christian far right?

Hmm it seems I usually take off my shirts the male way, but I do usually wear quite loose shirts and have small breasts. But with tighter tops I do it the female way.