DM - autism stats within young transitioner population

[Mumsnut]

Can’t link from phone but the Daily Mail has an article on this today

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7793557/A-quarter-youngsters-treated-transgender-clinics-just-autistic.html

To me this suggests young people with autism are either being used to further an ideology or being given inadequate support from the NHS. Yes, a person with autism can focus very strongly on an idea, but based on my experience of my daughter and her peers, they can also abruptly drop an idea once they've exhausted it.

Having a child with a v recent diagnosis of Autism and realising that there is no treatment/support whatsoever provided by the state. Is it possible that these young people are latching on to trans as a means of getting some kind of help (any kind of help)?

So, this section is from the HRC.org “The general rule for determining whether a child is transgender (rather than gender nonconforming or gender variant) is if the child is consistent, insistent, and persistent about their transgender identity”
Then autism.org.uk:
“Obsessions, repetitive behaviour and routines can be a source of enjoyment for autistic people and a way of coping with everyday life. But they may also limit people's involvement in other activities and cause distress or anxiety“
“Does the obsession, routine or repetitive behaviour restrict the person's opportunities, cause distress or discomfort, or impact on learning? If not, then it may not be necessary to intervene. If it is causing difficulties, or is in some way unsafe, they may need support to stop or modify the behaviour, or reduce their reliance on it.”
There seems to be just a teeny tiny overlap in the definitions but a different treatment?

I think it's very possible @mariwhee.

Transition is relatively high amongst autistic people - this isn’t news! And it makes sense- if you feel different and unsure of yourself when viewing yourself through the lens of gender roles, of course it would make sense that if you don’t fit ‘female’ you might fit better as ‘male’. If you have very literal thinking then yes this will make sense, if you believe that all girls like dresses, but you are more practical and prefer trousers for example. Does that make you a boy instead? If you have black and white thinking maybe it does, if you can’t see that girls can wear what they want. The social rules can be incredibly confusing.

Puberty's difficult for most of us, but if you're a child who struggles with interacting with and understanding others, their motivations and behaviours anyway, I can't imagine what it must be like when bits of your body start growing, smelling different, behaving strangely, hurting, bleeding, producing 'stuff', attracting looks, comments and unwanted touching.

And the interactions all round you seem to be changing - and everyone but you understands the rules.

It must seem like a answer to a wish when some bright attractive young you tuber posts a cute video saying 'you have a tribe, you're like us, WE get you - and here's the solution to everything.'

Yes, it's very hard to understand your place when there are a lot of sexist stereotypes and gendered socialisation and activities.
As an autistic person you can feel like you're from a different planet compared to everyone else, especially your peers.
I struggled a lot with not being a 'proper' or 'normal' girl and still have to deal with feelings of not being 'woman' enough. Must be awful to be surrounded by trans ideology these days as a young girl.

I might have ended up thinking I was trans or non-binary.

'Former psychologists at the NHS's flagship Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) told Sky News they feared young people were 'being over-diagnosed and then over-medicalised', adding: 'We fear that we have had front-row seats to a medical scandal.''

Front row seats?!

They were spotlit centre stage, doing the show.

But yes - creating a generation of sterilised, scarred and drug dependent autistic children and teens is a fucking scandal and reeks of eugenics.

A GIDS spokesman said its staff were 'trained and experienced in the nuances of autism'.

She continued: 'In our experience, young people with a diagnosis of ASD – or with some indication of having features of ASD – are all very different as individuals and so we would take great care in trying to understand how the ASD might be interacting with the development of their gender identity as well as with other identity issues.'

Such arrogance from the GIDS clinician. In my experience the people who assess for ASD can’t even pick up on the nuances. The GIDS clinicians must have superior diagnostic skills.

poster OneEpisode

That is very helpful.

One of the detransitioners was diagnosed at 17 by GIDS and detransitioned at 19.

I suspect any teenager with a tumblr habit could convince them they were suffering from dysphoria

Puberty seems rough for kids with autism in mainstream schools. They are at a higher risk of bullying etc. They are likely to spend more time online, especially if home educated...

There is very little help for autistic people in the way of therapy. My DD gets medication from the GP for anxiety. If things get bad, she gets signposted to talking therapies, which she hates.

She identifies as male. The GID clinic has done no exploration at all about how the autism might be linked to GD. They've simply rubber stamped a request for hormones and therapy. She is 21. I would be far less worried about her regretting the transition if a skilled practitioner had helped her work through why she feels this way.

Wrt support, it may well be that an autistic teen going along to an LGBT support group as T, finds other autistic teens in the same group and feels understood. That understanding may be entirely down to the autism and not the T. But because it's T club they think it's because they're T.

Agree with NonHypothetical about GIDS diagnostic skills. Dd's diagnosis was pretty simple but still involved several disciplines and teams. I seem to remember something about three sessions to see a young person which is less time than was spent on her diagnosis of autism. And what about the numbers of children they never see? What proportion of them are autistic?

Small agree about lack of support for autism. I had to take dd privately to get medication for anxiety and even privately I can't find any talking therapy for her.

Interesting interview here with Tony Attwood about gender dysphoria. How a psychologist with a specialism in autism would approach gender dysphoria as opposed to a gender specialist' affirmative approach. Note that he is supportive of transitioning where it appears to be a positive thing.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=bfVhwmE42L4

Alun - I am trying to get CBT for her with someone who understands autism. No luck so far.

It amazes me how easy it seems to be to access the gender clinics. Perhaps im just not aware of the waiting lists/struggles. But if you have a child with autism you are pretty much barred from access to medical care that relates to mental health so it amazes me they can get o GIDS. We've been rejected for anxiety support because 'autism' Been referred so often between 7 and 10 by multiple professionals but always rejected.

ASD here. I despite nearly 50 years on the planet still can’t do social nuance and the signalling of what isn’t just a conversation is a mystery to me. As we live in a society where men/boys are taught to be the ones who escalate from conversation to an intimate situation I have been startled each and every time this has happened because I was oblivious until the lunge.

It’s hard enough being autistic and knowing your behaviour/appearance/physicality is being observed and judged lacking. It’s impossible to know the difference between being looked at and judged weird and looked at as a sexual object. Puberty and the male gaze massively increases the amount of looks. By altering your appearance to masculine, concealing your female body it must reduce the amount of stares. No wonder autistic girls are transitioning.

Catalogue - I really don't know why researchers aren't talking to older autistic people about their experiences in adolescence to inform effective treatment for gd.

There seems to be a big overlap between some adult-diagnosed or self-diagnosed autistic individuals and TRAs. Black and white thinking, identity-first, small numbers of voiciferous individuals claiming to speak on behalf of the whole community, bullying of individuals who disagree, demonising parents/carers, imposition of barriers between children and their parents and offering an ‘alternative family’, dismissal of science in favour of ‘lived experience’...

Your post resonates with me Catalogue. On the rare occasion a guy who I regarded as a friend has expressed other feelings for me it has always completely caught me by surprise. I never had any idea it was coming. And would always propel me into flight or fight mode.

And the betrayal of autistic girls by this toxic ideology angers me beyond words.

I never fitted in the girls when I was a teenager. I always felt more at ease with the boys. I was never interested in the things girls were interested in. I have always hated my sexed body. I hated puberty, I hated the way my body changed and what it changed to. I still don't like it.

I thank all the deities that this was not being pushed when I was younger.

The Bullshit yes yes yes. Or freeze which is terrible. And then trusting no man to not have an agenda which hampers social interactions even more.

I think the living in a bubble that is possible with the Internet is hugely reinforcing for those questioning where they fit.

Birdsfoot I totally agree. I see a lot of black and white thinking that’s reinforced by bubble living along with having a platform and a prescriptive ideology. The drive to protect the younger members of the tribe has turned into indoctrination and isolation from unbelievers. It’s actually very similar to the schism between autism warrior parents and actuallyautistic communities. The edges of both are hardline and have turned the other into the enemy.