What was it with Jo Swinson?

[Freespeecher]

I was quite surprised with the personal opprobrium directed at Jo Swinson during the electoral campaign as, while I had no particularly strong feelings either way (beyond shaking my head at her swallowing of the woke Kool-Aid when it came to self-ID) it was clear that a lot of people couldn't stand her.

Was it just self-ID or was there more to it than that? And if so, what?

I honestly think she thought there were so many remainers in the U.K. if she said she was going to revoke then she'd clean up and be prime minister on the thirteenth of dec. It was such a grossly simplistic and erroneous view that they probably thought was a good idea at the time.

There are many remainers, but also many who believe in democracy. And would prefer us to come out now in the best way we can manage, even if we don't think coming out is the ultimately best for the country.

By the time they made the promise and realised quickly how badly wrong they had got it, it was too late. At the same time it started to become apparent the public couldn't warm to her and when she was put on the same platform as the other leaders she woefully and visibly under performed. She had little defence against the arguments being put to her.

They put themselves into such a difficult corner. You couldn't vote for the Lib Dem's unless you wanted article fifty revoked immediately and very few people were convinced that over turning the referendum like that was a good idea. Even fewer felt Swinson was showing she was capable of running the country. Couple that with the arrogance of the tag line "jo swinsons Lib Dem's" and "jo Swinson your next prime minister" and people weren't impressed.

Basically it was over for them before they began.

There are many remainers, but also many who believe in democracy.

And I think it's pretty clear that the remain/leave calculation is a bit more complicated in Scotland - as she found to her cost.

I think the misogyny angle has some impact but she struck me as someone who had few convictions & had a history of compromising on important issues that negatively impacted a wide proportion of the electorate. She didn't convince me on her commitment to stopping Brexit as she tried to leverage her stance on that to block Corbyn being installed as an interim PM. She couldn't see past Corbyn to get what she claimed to want. I'm not a Corbyn supporter or fan in any form, but blocking the means to what ends you claimed you wanted smacks of tantrum politics & results in missed opportunity.

Her voting record on terrible Tory policies was indefensible & she seemed woefully underprepared to adequately explain how she could be relied upon when she was able to compromise on fundamental issues that were devastating to vulnerable groups of people. She tried to disown her own track record & that was never going to work out in the heightened social media age!

And her dogged commitment to the self ID/TWAW ideology, even as her views/arguments were unraveling with every interview was a car crash for her, but also underlined how insincere she was on so-called compromise, having been more Tory than many Tories in her voting record cos "compromise" yet she couldn't waiver from the mantra TWAW, digging herself further into the hole, offending women, lesbians & the intelligence of her constituents as she did so.

She definitely got a hard time in the way most women do in politics, but her seat loss I think was many layered & lots of reasons other than that type of misogyny at play.

She was just a terrible politician.

I actually quite fancied the lib-dems as a labour / tory alternative, right up until I heard her talking, and particularly being interviewed.

She seemed to play up to a lot of entitlement,and whenever questioned was immediately defensive / aggressive / dismissive, particularly with members of the public questioning her.

And her claims of being the next PM demonstrated a clear lack of grasp of reality.

Self ID

But also just listen to the Woman's Hour interview (not the toughest gig out there) - she didn't have a real answer for the Lord Rennard issues.
And Jo spends too much time in the party with the "activists" and not enough "out there" with real people - if she had been a better constituency MP it would have helped.
Someone genuinely asked yesterday if Layla Moran would make a good leader.

Compare Jo to Tim Farron.

And I think it's pretty clear that the remain/leave calculation is a bit more complicated in Scotland - as she found to her cost.

She spent her time trying to appeal to English voters and forgot she was actually standing in a Scottish constituency.

O never once heard her mention how Scotland is being dragged out of the EU against our express democratic wish and against the promises her, and other parties, made to us in 2014.

I never once heard her stress how important it is that Scotland is allowed to decide its own future and allowed to keep our options open.

She deserved to lose her seat for putting voters in a different country ahead of her own constituents.

Yes, she was a hopeless incompetent politician who unilaterally dismissed a democratic vote with arrogance and condescension. But let's call it misogyny 🤷🏻‍♀️

I voted Lib Dem, but even I can see that Swinson had a poor campaign and made serious mistakes. Agreeing to Johnson’s demands for a December election was a serious mistake. Saying she would undemocratically revoke A50 was a serious mistake. Presenting herself as a candidate to be PM was ridiculous.

Unfortunately for her, her voice is thin, strident and grating. This is not a sexist point. Plenty of female politicians have excellent, strong voices eg Thornberry, Lucas.

I don't celebrate her losing her seat particularly. I would be a natural lib Dem voter as a liberal remainer, but the way the party under her handled the discussion re self id was very illiberal. When she was asked about their gender policies she voiced activist lines (not very well) rather than her own belief/opinion imo. Which suggests she hasn't thought through what the policies mean. It's also the natural outcome of #nodebate. If all you do in response to questions is say 'you're not welcome in our party' or call people names, you never test your arguments.

But more importantly the policy to revoke art. 50 was undemocratic. If by some miracle they got a majority and took that as a mandate to stay in the EU without a referendum, brexit voters (many people) would feel rightly aggrieved which wouldn't help cohesion. And as kingmaker it would be unrealistic to expect the bigger party to agree without a referendum.

All water under the bridge now. I wish her well from here on.

I hope it gives the wider party some indication that certain policies are difficult to explain without sounding bonkers, and makes some lib Dem activists think more critically about it all.

Yes to all the stuff about her voting record and self-ID etc.

But also I just think she didn't present herself as a serious PM candidate. We all know appearance shouldn't matter, but the sad fact it bloody well still does, and if you're trying to win people over you're more likely to if you look like a leader - powerful, confident, smart.
Someone once advised female politicians to dress so that it was the person that was remembered and not the clothes and I think that's spot on.

'Boden mum' is the right descriptor for Jo - too many of the single colour dresses and plastic earrings with that slash neckline which simply didn't suit her larger top half!
If I'd had to advise her I would say matching dress and jacket if you want blocks of colour (Nicola Sturgeon does this well); V necks, not round or slash; shorter, shaped bob for the hair and (dare I say it) look at some orthodontic dental work on the front teeth?
YES, YES, I know it is completely unfair and shallow, but it's how it is, if you want to play the game (for women )

I never voted for Theresa May, but I thought she spoke well, was intelligent, wasn't cold like Thatcher/Clinton, and was impeccably dressed.
The recent history and quality (or lack thereof) of LibDem leaders is underwhelming.
The fact that they let Aimee Challenor into their party without doing some background checks, well that speaks volumes about them.

I liked Theresa May and feel that she was treated badly.
She lacked ' personality', was considered old (at 60) and is a woman.
I think she is a woman of principle and conscientious. Her constituents, the ones I know, speak highly of her.

Generally, the public want someone who you could have a natter or a drink with.

It helps to be a youngish man, with a full head of hair and no beard. Red hair only if scottish.

I think there are different parts to this.

One the media presentation. The all give women MPs a harder time. Constantly going after her about self id wasn't because the media cares about the issue, it was to set her up to look stupid. And I am sure some stylist somewhere thought up the way she should dress would somehow be middle england enough to reassure voters. (They all have their styles, look at Nicola Sturgeon and her little suits, and Angela Merkel with her one suit but in many colours.)

Also, I doubt there are many on here who not what she did or did not say in her own constituency, and as others have said up thread she was defeated by the SNP surge. As she had already lost her seat once and only got it back on a few hundred, it was probably a bit stupid of the Lib Dems to elect her as leader.

Her problem was that having taken on the role of leader she then had to sell it to the public, not just the self id, but the committment to revoke (which many say as undemocratic). This was also Corbyn's problem and why he came over as a bit vague. He is a committed exiter but was forced through the "democratic" process of party conference etc., to push an agenda that others had compiled.

I just think that she had faults, but so do they all. It is just the media endlessly parroting each other. ie the terrible election for the Lib Dems. The reality is they increased their vote, and under a more representative result reflecting what people actually want the Lib Dems should have had over 70 seats. They got 12. SNP got 48, but should only have had 25!

The problem is even when we are aware of media slanting and making it personality politics, it still seeps in. Look how many people are saying when electioneering people were talking about Corbyn as being a Communist. Many of his policies were those of the McMillan Tory Government "You've Never Had It So Good".

Mother, I feel guilty for saying so but I have to agree with your analysis of Swinson's style.

That said, she didn't come across well on radio, either! See Woman's Hour interview.

Compare Jo to Tim Farron

Met Farron.

Modest and self deprecating which I found very personable.

But he bombed at the election, so what the fuck do I know.

*Look how many people are saying when electioneering people were talking about Corbyn as being a Communist."

Perhaps because Andrew Murray was a Communist Party member until 2016, Ash Sarkar, described herself as 'a literal communist' and Aaron Bastani wrote a book called "Fully Automated Luxury Communism: A manifesto".

Modest and self deprecating which I found very personable. But he bombed at the election, so what the fuck do I know.

He increased their seats from 8 to 12 in a very polarised election (which historically disadvantages them). Jo Swinson lost one when the two other party leaders were historically unpopular.

I don't think his departure was much to do with a poor showing- I think it was about the illiberal wing of the party (Jo et al) going for him because he was Christian and had a history of skepticism on some of the ID politics stuff.

Not sure if this will display

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soory - not enough square brackets.

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Naw she was just shite no more no less.

Looked to me like someone who was over promoted in a party of well not got got a clues what they where about

Guess she will go,onto head up,a charity. Seems like where them people with the right spoke go,to.
Easy money

lbd, the Mail are suggesting that should there be a dissolution honours list, and Boris is entitled to have one, Jo Swinson would be at the top of the LibDem list.

She and Ruth Hunt, and presumably John Bercow, can have jolly lunches together, with perhaps Shami Chakrabati. Hereditary peers may have been in-bred and undemocratic, but I am starting to miss them.

And Nicola Sturgeon.

I liked Tim Farron too. He seemed genuine.

Tim Farron struck me as a proper, old fashioned, liberal of the 'disagree with what you say but defend your right to say it' variety.

He had his personal views, which were influenced by his personal religion, but didn't try to prevent others from holding different views and living their lives accordingly.