What was it with Jo Swinson?

[Freespeecher]

I was quite surprised with the personal opprobrium directed at Jo Swinson during the electoral campaign as, while I had no particularly strong feelings either way (beyond shaking my head at her swallowing of the woke Kool-Aid when it came to self-ID) it was clear that a lot of people couldn't stand her.

Was it just self-ID or was there more to it than that? And if so, what?

@milveycrohn
Labour also officially believes in self Id although lots of the party members do no. They have / have had trans women’s officers, notably Lily Madigan when (s)he was about 18. Ill equipped for the job due to age and birth sex, only interested in trans issues, not issues for natal women, they ultimately ended up resigning.

The Mail's take.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7791161/STEPHEN-GLOVER-Self-satisfied-Jo-Swinson-head-prefect-bossy-warm-to.html

I felt some sympathy for May. She was landed with a poison chalice, and 'the boys' did not make it easy for her. Swinson, though. I am not sure why I disliked her, and worry that there is some misogyny. But there is no way I could have voted for her or her party.

She herself is as guilty of dishing out the misogyny as she's doubtless been on the receiving end.

This. I've been a little leery of the complaints about her record, but boy was I wrong. She wasn't some reluctant Tory accomplice, she was actively awful:

• Opposed to measures to increase women in politics.
• Wanted to remove the ability of police and councils to take action against door to door scammers.
• In favour of the gender pay gap (no, I'm not kidding).
• Opposed to the living wage.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/new-free-for-all-for-door-to-door-selling-8347582.html

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9615292/Female-quotas-negatively-affect-business-says-minister.html

Probably her voting record. She's just a yellow tory.

People have long memories about the behaviour of the Libdems when Clegg joined up with Cameron, and the self id put the tin helmet on it, she betrayed women with her comments.

An authoritarian pretending to be a liberal.

A anti-feminist pretending to be a feminist.

When you can't state material reality it shows up the above and grates.

Swinson came across to me as intelligent but a bit arrogant, unsophisticated and not sharp. A plodder, not quick witted enough to perform well in interviews. More of a chartered accountant or provincial solicitor than potential PM.

I really wanted to support her. I have voted LibDem many times in the past but their policy on self-id, removing sex protections for women and her complete inability to understand what a woman is made it completely impossible for me to support her.
I'm glad she's gone. LD need a complete rethink.

I'm willing to cut her some slack re self id. There's no way she would have been able to back track on this and ignore the party line. The policy was debated at conference and adopted. She had no alternative as leader other than to support the batshittery.
I only hope that personally she doesn't agree and may seek to influence a change from within.
The libdems are pretty ruthless as an organisation.

She was asked about self-ID and biological sex in three consecutive interviews in the course of a couple of days and STILL couldn’t come up with any form of coherent argument by the third. That demonstrates either:

1. she is so committed to upholding the party batshittery she was prepared to look a fool no matter what and/or
2. she was unable to think and formulate better answers and be better prepared, either by herself or with advisers and/or
3. she actually believes it.

Let’s be honest, Anna from Warwickshire asked such a simple question but it had the leader of the third major party in the country bumbling for an answer. How does that person expect to be an elected MP, let alone Prime Minister? I would expect better from a high school debating team.

There is a lot of talk about how Labour/LibDems have lost the working class. Those interviews highlighted why. Normal, everyday working people listen to that and her bumbling on about birth certificates in loos and they hear someone who has no concept of real life.

A Lib Dem policy is to legalise cannabis use as well which is an insane thing to do. I meet tens of people a day in the course of my work and without exception the scummiest people, second/third/fourth/fifth generation unemployed reek of the stuff. It's not like the weak stuff hippies used to pass round; modern stuff is many times stronger and is a mental health timebomb primed and ready. The Lib Dems want this filth legalised. Shame on them.

Putting self ID to one side, she was unable to shake the stereotype of low competence and high warmth as a female leader - exactly summed up by pp

She's a nice, bright, educated middle class woman. But I think she was too young and her voice and manner not authoritative enough

Nice, but not competent. Whereas other more successful women leaders usually get painted as competent but cold/ambitious/take no prisoners like Thatcher, Clinton, Merkel etc. And lucky BJ being a privileged white male means he can be considered a warm baffoon but simultaneously regarded as competent in the job

For me it was her voting record, her promise to cancel brexit despite the referendum (I'm an ardent remainer but that's just not right in a democracy) and her shrill way of ranting at people. I guess the shrill bit could be seen as due to her being a woman but most of it is because she's got some awful views.

And I don't get why anyone is calling her nice. Not with that voting record.

Nice is what she comes across as, a bit wet even, if you've just been exposed to general campaign images rather than delve into voting records etc which is the level a lot of people leave their voting decisions to

I was put off by her voting record in the Coalition government before she even spoke about GRA reform.

‘Voters don’t seem to warm to her the more they find out about her.^

That was an interesting sentence in the Isobel Hardman blog (thanks for the link upthread by the way). Being perceived as not having a sense of humour is often a problem for party leaders in Britain. She did come across as lacking humour and being able to think on her feet.

Her voting record is abysmal, her personality didn't appeal at all as I found her complacent, patronising and unintelligent. She's smug, self satisfied and quite prepared to sacrifice the most vulnerable in society to those who merely claim to be the most vulnerable. Perhaps I expect more caring from her because she's female, in which case I guess I'm being sexist, but if a female will hand over other females to predators without a qualm, then in my eyes, she's pond scum.

nettie434

Yes, I found it interesting. Hardman didn't pretend to know the answer, just pointed out it seemed to be an unexpected issue.

I think her image wasn’t going to appeal- not fair but there it is. People still judge young women on appearances. Too young, too female, didn’t appear professional enough. She wasn’t going to be taken seriously.

I don't consider her a "young" woman, and plenty of female leaders have been successful, from sturgeon to thatcher and many many MPs.

Jo Swinson is not unique in terms of her age or gender. That's not what turned people off her. Clearly.

As said, I didn't like her image either, the crumpled jumpers and big dangley earrings I didn't feel appropriate to the role and was astounded the first time I watched her in the house, realised who she was, and when the other leaders and MPs were suited and booted, she looked like she was off down Waitrose for the weekly shop.

However I think ultimately it was the fact she was out of her depth, as well as her lack of ability to show any empathy even when she didn't feel it, that did for her, everything else was just adding to the problem.

She definitely has skills, is clearly intelligent, but this was not the job for her. She didn't have the gravitas or skill set to pull it off. And it cost her and the Lib Dem's dearly.

the constant racist and homophobic arguments where apparently black women and lesbians distort the definition of woman so much that letting men into the definition is the next logical step is disgusting

This for me. I'm not white. I'm sick of being treated as someone who's been allowed into the club called the human race out of the kindness of the hearts of liberals. Woe betide I step out of line, though.

The berating of women: talking about their FGM, period, pregnancy, biological experiences for displaying "privilege"; not wanting to be in a same sex marriage because their husband decides he is a woman; not wanting to have sexual relations with a male bodied person claiming they are a lesbian.... And on and fucking on. The LibDems embraced all of this. I can't get my head around anyone who elevates the interests of some middle aged bloke who wants to dress in feminine garb above everyone else in society.

Swinson herself. For me, her insincerity oozes out of every pore. There's nothing behind the eyes. She didn't come across as particularly intelligent. I want to be dazzled by intellect and envy the things that MPs have done with their lives, hopefully to have changed society in some way. I believe voting is an act of bestowing great trust, and votes should only be taken by those who have proved they are the most able in service for the greater good.

Swinson is the epitome of the career politician, having done absolutely nothing with her life of note (PR. FFS PR???!!!) . Sorry, but becoming an MP of an in itself doesn't cut it for me as an achievement. It just shows an arrogant ambition to rule, without any underlying understanding of the needs of citizens through actually working with them at grass roots. I can't imagine going for a job that I was not highly qualified for. Those that do, for me, are at best grifters, at worst, sociopaths. Her resignation speech said it all - blame everyone else. Those were not the words of a stateswoman.

She simply was up to or ready for the job.

The party was destroyed after the coalition and they don't have many options for good leaders.

The party thought they could win seats by revoking article 50 alone and weren't convincing about any other issue.

The self id was just an add on in response to the negative reaction to Farron and probably pressure from a few strategically placed TRA. But, when questioned about self id, it was obvious she was just parroting tra without any understanding.

I think the liberals thought they could clean up in London and perhaps university towns with a remain and woke agenda and didn't really bother with policies that would appeal to the rest of the UK.

She doesn't know how to play the long game. Every single thing can and will come back to bite you on the arse, even 30 or 40 years down the line.

She couldn’t say what a woman is. Ridiculous.

She gave the impression that it was more important to validate Edward Lord's identity (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Lord), than to protect women in situations where their sex makes them vulnerable (Oh somebody, somewhere will do some kind of risk assessment thingy...).