How would you feel about this? Barking up the wrong tree?

[StrictlyHypothetical]

NC for this and prepared for it to potentially get some backs up. However, I am in a position where I have a bit of influence but would not want it to backfire, so I want to talk in hypotheticals. FWIW I am GC and my views have very much been cemented and shaped by this board although I tend to lurk rather than post.

Backbench, but long-standing (and very safe seat) Conservative MP exploring a 'cause' to throw their weight behind. Not afraid of controversy although not a household name by any stretch of the imagination. Outraged at the idea of self-identification, strongly believes that woman = adult human female and willing to publicly say as much. No social media presence so it would be the old-fashioned way.

HOWEVER. Voting record is not exactly woman-friendly. Voted against same-sex marriage, abortion rights etc. Definitely on the far right of the party. Would you welcome support from this person? Or would you see it as more a hindrance?

My personal opinion (no inside knowledge of politics) is that something like this would be much more effective if done in collaboration with more moderate politicians. Why doesn't this person seek an informal, friendly conversation with women who would be affected by this?

But that's the thing about this issue: people across the political spectrum understand that self-ID is a bad idea, for all sorts of reasons. From left-wing feminists to those caring about vulnerable children to scientists, sceptics and religious conservatives. Why it ever got off the ground is a mystery to me.

Is their opposition for self-id because they feel that men should be men and women should be women? (If that question makes sense)

I can't speak for anyone else, but I feel people should pursue causes that resonate deeply with them, rather than trying to latch on to what they think might be popular or fashionable.

If this person feels strongly against self-id then I don't see why they shouldn't speak about it if they want to. Plenty of other politicians are very vocal about their support for the idea.

The more diverse voices we get that speak their mind on the matter the better. It's not just feminists that are concerned about the issue. If you care about democracy, freedom of speech, interference from the state, scientific and academic freedom etc then the secretive and extensive influence of the trans lobby should be deeply troubling to anyone who values such ideals.

The issues with the trans lobby go well beyond feminist viewpoints.
Women, many who are not feminists, will form their own personal opinions on whether to support such a person or not.

Oh we seem to be saying similar things, dayoftheclownfish! :)

I think your suggestion of the person approaching more moderate colleagues for collaboration is a good one.

you can have cross party working groups.
Also David Davies from Monmouthshire has a fair amount of experience here so may be a good one to speak to.
Perhaps approach any other know GC MPs and see if they could start some impact assesment work

We now have a conservative Government. They are likely to be subjected to lobbying by TRAs so assuming this MP has some reasonable standing within the party anyone prepared to speak out against the TRA lobby is a good thing. I don’t think we should shy away from right-wing MPs when trying to influence a conservative government. TRAs won’t be so picky,

I think it would also be good if he could highlight the level of undemocratic influence Stonewall has been granted within police, education, business and government and they way they are telling everyone that the law is different from what it actually is - Stonewall Law.

True, Birds - and I think it would be good for political discourse in general if we could rein in "guilt by association" thinking.

The genderist ideology is so bonkers it doesn't matter who gets it debated publicly so long as it gets a proper airing in sunlight.

You don't have to agree or disagree with the promoter's whole politics to see identity politics as damaging once it is out in the open for discussion like any other topic.

Swinson is a great example of this in action. Love her or loathe her, most people are making this face when she says biological sex isn't clear (you what, love?) and that transwomen are the most vulnerable in society (er, does she know about poor elderly dementia sufferers, refugee children, victims of sex trafficking, people in refuges, the homeless, etc).

Get it into the sunlight. Bollocks to #nodebate. Bollocks to getting ahead of the law. Get it debated in the open.

Political purity is not required. I'm honestly not bothered what someone's voting record is or how nice a person they are or what paper they read: I expect someone in a position of public responsibility to realise that removing all services from some women to provide additional choice of services for males, removing the rights of female people to congregate and organise for any reason without the supervision of males, removing the right of female people to identify themselves as a sex class and have a voice as a group in law, and removing safeguarding for children while waving through extremely dodgy lobby groups and overturning of basic medical ethics is not acceptable in this country.

At all.

Strictly I suspect you may be talking about my MP - he's been declared 'anti-trans' by Pink News and has done an article in the local paper but as no social media slips under the radar and has done nothing in the nationals.

FWIW, he's not my cup of tea: this is the only thing we agree on and he wrote a very long letter to me when I raised this with him. But I would welcome high profile intervention from any MP, especially one in power.

This keeps happening, though. Everyone apologising for sharing Daily Mail articles, or stuff from the Times or the Telegraph.

We've got a Conservative government, and we want them to understand the problem.

And I think most people understand that this is a cross-party issue. Normal politics can't get in the way. And people are acknowledging that there is a real problem with tribalism.

It's my view that the entire issue is heading towards critical mass. And it's not far away.

Once that happens, everyone will be on board, not just the right wing.

Having said that. If he really is a nightmare, it would be useful if he could align himself with someone a little more moderate.

Oops, sorry, third post, as I keep forgetting bits.

According to James Kirkup, there are a number of MPs who are gender critical, but are too chickenshit to say so. So he might well have some people he could sound out.

Kirkup said some of them are in the cabinet.

What Michelle said.
This is no time for purity politics. Is he a member of a banned organisation? Has he been convicted of a terrible crime? No, I bet he hasn't.

For instance, I have heard very good things about David Davies from women across ALL parties who have had dealings with him. David DAVIS has expressed concern about Harry's and Maya's cases.

In my opinion, it is only going to take a couple more MPs to get behind this and the foundations will begin to crumble.

James Kirkup has said there are a number of MPs who dare not speak out about this, if someone took the lead I do feel others will follow.

We know SelfID is a ridiculously dangerous idea, we know doing medical experiments on children is WRONG.

Expecting everyone who knows these thins to agree with us on every other issue is madness. Whoever talks about this get attacked by the TRAs anyway even if they are perfectly pure on everything.

I think we are at a tipping point. Your call OP

And obviously what Datun said as she types faster than I do

My Tory mp was returned, the lib dem challenge failed. My MP was originally pro self ID but seems to have listened to constituents. We take what we can get is my view, if the tories are nervous on this, and could be convinced to put measures in place to protect women and children from this ideaology, then that might be a positive outcome.

I

Agree with others that a coalition of radfem, moderate and conservative voices is needed on self-ID.

But as Nonny asked, does this guy believe in enforcing gender roles (boys should be boys etc.)? That is actively unhelpful in this debate, because it's the existence of gender roles that caused this mess in the first place, and because demanding trans people adhere to the gender roles associated with their sex is (correctly) widely considered to be cruel (and is likened to conversion therapy).

Can this MP stay in the brown area of the Venn diagram - and out of the red?

According to James Kirkup, there are a number of MPs who are gender critical, but are too chickenshit to say so.

Maybe a thumping majority, Swinson's comedic interviews and Labour wokeness failing to be a vote winner will make them OK with coming out as GC now, especially as it is sensible not some loony view.

dratalanta why the automatic concern about Trans people ‘adheringto gender roles’ and not women? Why have you not said ‘it is considered to be cruel’ to expect women to stay at home, bring up children, look pretty and stay out of the board room?

I expect someone in a position of public responsibility to realise that removing all services from some women to provide additional choice of services for males, removing the rights of female people to congregate and organise for any reason without the supervision of males, removing the right of female people to identify themselves as a sex class and have a voice as a group in law, and removing safeguarding for children while waving through extremely dodgy lobby groups and overturning of basic medical ethics is not acceptable in this country

This excellent post from Michelleoftheresistance .

I can feel myself fence sitting here. I desperately want an MP to start opening the curtains and letting in the sunlight. But if they are an absolute raging misogynist?

OP, can he, or she, sound out someone else, who could lend them some cred?

Every additional MP etc who gets on board with this will not have all the answers, approaches and knowledge - especially compared with posters on here. But we still need them - even if they're at the most basic level of simply knowing that as a man they don't want to share toilets or a hospital ward with women.
That's been one of the problems - the issues are complex and in the face of relentless intimidation and threats, too many people are afraid to speak out. And that's why we need a critical mass.

OP, I’d go for it. The Tories have a thumping majority, they don’t have to care about scoring woke points or pandering to TRA activists. I can’t think of anyone MORE likely to fearlessly stand up to this antiscientific trendy ideology than a right wing Tory!
I also agree with the consensus on here, that it would be wise to encourage him to align with some moderates, just so his statements can’t be dismissed as “extremist dinosaur” views.
He will surely see that he’s singing to the choir when airing this issue - I can’t imagine any Tory matrons want all men given free access to their changing rooms and loos via self ID.
Not to mention the thought of children being put on unlicensed damaging puberty blockers by the NHS, with the threat of future class action lawsuits costing the taxpayer millions in compensation.

Half the North voted Tory. I think breaking down the "them and us" is probably feasible right now.
Being called out by woke types is not a problem right now, and he has the warm glow of the One Nation thing to bask in.

Basically what I'm saying is if there is ever going to be a time when a right winger is useful, it would be now.
And if we lose momentum (small m) then it will drop off the public radar and we'll have to fight back from being mean and unreasonable all over again.

Political purity is not required. I'm honestly not bothered what someone's voting record is or how nice a person they are or what paper they read

Agree with Michelle and other posters. This ideology is so bonkers, it disintegrates as soon as it’s challenged. It’s imperative that any GC politician speaks out now because the lobby will try to influence this government just like it has influenced every recent government. It must not be allowed to manipulate policies behind the veil. The only way to stop this is by challenging its agenda. Anyone who speaks out is an asset because when the ideology is this bonkers? All that’s required is public debate and media scrutiny. But if media apathy and political stupidity resume? That’s a serious problem