Mrs Gove/Sarah Vine in the Daily Fail

[Gingernaut]

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7778611/SARAH-VINE-Jo-Swinson-woman-betraying-women-swapping-principles-populism.html

I am so sorry for the Fail link.

No need to apologise. The DM has had some good features on this topic and reaches a different demographic. That exposure has been vital.

This isn't the first time Mrs Gove has written about this and it's good to know that there are GC views right at the top of the Conservative party. I know she's not a politician, but at least she will have the ear of those who are.

Why are you calling her mrs Gove? She goes by Vine, which is her name
But thanks for the link

She's Michael Gove's wife, which is an important link in this story.

In choosing to improve the lot of a very small minority of admittedly vulnerable individuals,
This line again.
Why is nobody explaining that according to current thinking, that self ID is already bloody here in M&S, John Lewis etc?! If you have testicles and say you're a woman, you ARE a woman. You ARE trans. These articles the past few days are great to see, but the "tru-trans" line is infuriating.

*sorry two thoughts there. The vulnerability point is also infuriating. A trans woman in male or female toilets or changing rooms is definitely not more vulnerable than me in either of those places if men are there.

So call her Michael Gove's wife. Renaming a woman with her husband's surname is unacceptable.

I'm not a fan of Sarah Vine, but that is an important article. She really spells out the issue, straight into the ear of middle England.

No need to apologise. The DM has had some good features on this topic and reaches a different demographic. That exposure has been vital

Well said TimeLady. It has reported important news items which other media have deliberately ignored. If it’s a fail, what words to describe The Guardian? And it’s cabaret of fanatical hacks?

Its damn autocorrect...

I think I’d be more inclined to apologise for a Guardian link nowadays. Thanks for posting this.

Sarah Vine has covered this topic for a while, with some good articles.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6084937/amp/SARAH-VINE-rights-one-transgender-pupil-trump-rest-schools-students.html

When the book on the history of the madness is written, it is quite possible that we will discover that it was the Mail rather than the Times who first braved the opprobrium from the trans lobby. Sanchez Manning, in particular, has produced some clear and useful reports.

I don't get the Mrs Gove either. I don't think that would happen if she were writing for the Guardian and her husband were a Labour politician. Women come in different shapes, sizes and political hues.

Good to see this article, although I agree that we should not call her "Mrs Gove", when that is not her name.

Also, to correct her on one thing - in my local John Lewis at least, there is no separate women's room for breastfeeding. There is a "parents' room" with a room inside it at one end, containing a toilet. Then several changing stations in the middle, and then two feeding areas at the other end, each with several chairs.

Personally I would prefer one of the feeding areas to be women-only, so that any women who feel uncomfortable breastfeeding can do so without the male gaze.

I didn't have a problem BFing in public once I'd figured it out and could do it discreetly, but in the early days when my breasts were very sore, and it took ages to latch the baby, I preferred to do it in private but would not have minded other women being there.

Thanks for the link.

Empress I apologised for posting a Guardian link in AIBU the other day.

There are some incisive points and she gets the nonsense - teen boys can be women, etc.

But slightly misunderstands with

Now I can perfectly understand that, for those unfortunate enough to suffer from gender dysphoria, any delay in being able to live life as they want must be agonising.

There is no delay. Hence there being an estimated 500,000 trans people and less than 5000 certificates issued.

It should matter. Teen boys, for instance, aren't eligible for a GRC unless over 18. But if Sarah thinks that's any kind of barrier, agonising or otherwise, she's wrong.

I think I’d be more inclined to apologise for a Guardian link nowadays.

Me too.

I'm never apologising for linking to a source that's Bad and Wrong because Not My Kind Of People again. That kind of tribalistic thinking, where people decide what they believe based on what our kind of people support versus what those nasty people on the other kind support without taking the time to consider what's being advocated themselves and whether it actually makes any bloody sense, is a big part of what got us into this mess. A whole lot of people swallowed TRA doctrine hook line and sinker purely because of who else they though did or didn't support it.

any delay in being able to live life as they want must be agonising.

What do people think they're being stopped from doing exactly?

But yes overall good article.

Remember when Jenner indicated that Jenner could not paint Jenner's nails until Jenner "became a woman"?

Populism? It's not even popular.

Populism? It's not even popular.

I suspect the Westminster/media bubble is not representative of the wider population in this area. Though it did cross my mind recently, that’s if the more mature women in the BBC are as pissed off as one would expect them to be, then that might explain why one or two of them suddenly seem to have a really good handle on the situation now they are allowed to speak,

I think the article is really good.

The R5Live questioning by the fantastic Anna was truly revealing - but 5Live doesn't have a huge audience - that Daily Mail article will reach millions.

Many, many more people will now know that "What is a woman?" is a question that Jo Swinson cannot answer.

Many, many more people will now know that "What is a woman?" is a question that Jo Swinson cannot answer

theflushedzebra seeing it written down like that? It’s both laughable and incredible that this is an accurate description of a politico who expects voters to put her in Downing Street....

I'm intrigued about the "Mrs Gove" problem.

Whilst recognising that it's not the name she goes by, and that wives aren't husband's property, I think it is actually a handy reminder to show those who may not know that this isn't just some independent journalist, but the wife of one of the most influential figures in the government.

I also admit though, that I am struggling to think of a comparison where the woman-in-power goes by her surname and has an influential husband going by a different surname trying to influence things and flying under the radar...

Good article. I particularly like this paragraph:
"Not least because we learn the Lib Dems received a £100,000 donation from a company that manufactures puberty-blocking drugs used to halt the biological development of children. If that’s not a conflict of interest, my name’s John."

Actually, I just read the article. It's basically a party-political hatchet job against the Lib Dems and Labour. In this instance, "Mrs Gove" is quite right as a reminder.