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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Please help me with links for local FB knobhead

38 replies

MagnificentTrousers · 10/12/2019 19:11

I've NC for this as anyone who knows me will have seen my interactions on a local FB page following Jo Swinson's recent interviews on WH and Radio 5, and a general discussion around the supposed ousting of the local Tory by tactically voting LD.

I've tried playing nice, but have been accused of transphobia more than once, and although for the most part I have been backed up gently by other women, I have just been informed by a man that he "personally finds the toilets case irrelevant because (to paraphrase), the amount of times a predatory man is going to get caught in the women's loos and claim as an excuse that he was feeling particularly feminine that day has only probably happened maybe 10 times in the history of the planet."

What I want to reply is "Well of course YOU find it irrelevant, you're a MAN and this hasn't ever, and won't ever happen to YOU", but I need a link/s to show him that his 10 cases in the whole of history is bullshit.

Or shall I just say what I wanted to in the first place?

I'm conscious that people who will see it actually know me in real life, but he's really pissed me off, along with another man who's asking "What's the problem with self-id? It's no different really to what we have now - how does this impact women? It's not like the trans community are all perverts, you transphobic bitch, this is what TW have to put up with day in, day out" etc.

I'm very cross - please help me reply intelligently and in a reasoned manner.

OP posts:
OhHolyJesus · 10/12/2019 19:16

Katie Dolatowski in Scotland

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4002789/morrisons-sex-attack-girl-fife-transgender-katie-dolatowski/

This in Surrey

www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/cobham-public-toilet-rape-arrest-16839335

South Africa

www.thesun.co.uk/news/7356856/horror-as-girl-6-raped-in-restaurant-toilet-by-paedophile-who-followed-her-to-the-loo/

Yaniv and his predatory behaviour with the photos to prove it.

Head over to the This Never Happens thread for more or you could go to Menophilia if you want to gross him out.

TheShoesa · 10/12/2019 19:19

Is there anything useful to you on the 'This/that/it never happens' threads?

There are links in some of those

TheShoesa · 10/12/2019 19:20

Crossed post OhHoly I'm a slow typer!

Artesia · 10/12/2019 19:23

Hello OP - I am on the same local FB thread as you!!! Personally I think your suggested “well duh, you’re a man” response perfect, but given the tone of the thread, think the examples suggested may be more constructive!!!

HandsOffMyRights · 10/12/2019 19:23

It's happened dozens of times I'd say. The It Never Happens thread probably has about 10 cases max, but if you search it, the depressing truth is out there.

Does this twonk have a mother, sister, daughter, aunt, nan?

HandsOffMyRights · 10/12/2019 19:29

The fact is men attack women and children in those spaces. When it's easy for them to follow, to hang around, to corner them.

So you need to correct this guy and make it simple. Penises are used as a weapon to rape. There are countless stories on that.

What we are talking about is men - however they identify.

Original poster
MagnificentTrousers · 10/12/2019 19:36

@Artesia It's a shit-show isn't it? I think I'll calm down a bit and then maybe do a bit of both 'you're a man what would you know?', and check out the 'this never happens' threads so he can't claim I'm deranged.

Or I might just tell him he's a wanker, and tell the other bloke that it's not my job to educate him on the implications for women of self-id, because there's plenty of info out there if you are interested.

The jury is out on what I might do.

OP posts:
Ibloodylovewomen · 10/12/2019 19:37

Not all cases of sexual assault get reported to the police, let alone in the newspapers. And one case is too many.

teawamutu · 10/12/2019 19:48

Ask him how many rapes there would need to be before he agreed there was a problem to address.

theflushedzebra · 10/12/2019 19:54

LibDems want to bring in gender neutral everything, OP -toilets, changing rooms, school uniforms....

Gender neutral facilities put women at risk. Full stop.

www.libdemvoice.org/lynne-featherstone-lib-dems-must-fight-oppression-so-no-lgbt-person-has-to-live-in-fear-59869.html

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

Almost 90% of sexual assault, harassment and voyeurism reported by women in changing rooms took place in gender neutral facilities. Men are opportunists. They will take any opportunity, and identifying as a woman is no hassle if you can self identify.

Maybe take this tack with him, rather than listing crimes? Keep it more general.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 10/12/2019 19:54

Exactly. Are 10 women/girls acceptable collateral damage?

theflushedzebra · 10/12/2019 19:55

*should say predatory men are opportunists.

NAMALT blah blah blah. Obvs.

reginafelangee · 10/12/2019 20:04

Will a female sign on the door stop a predator?

theflushedzebra · 10/12/2019 20:08

It generally does, according to research. Regina.

Artesia · 10/12/2019 20:08

No, but it will make it easier to spot and challenge one

theflushedzebra · 10/12/2019 20:09

Almost 90% much, it seems.

Perhaps because men in women's facilities raise alarm, and are out of place - whereas in unisex, they do/are not.

ShesDressedInBlackAgain · 10/12/2019 20:19

What's a predator?

Could it be a guy with a cross dressing fetish who uses the toilet but accidentally doesn't lock it?

I reckon a female sign stops that one.

HandsOffMyRights · 10/12/2019 21:27

OP
Scroll to the bottom of this site and you will find numerous examples:

www.peaktrans.org/sex-segregated-spaces/

Thelnebriati · 10/12/2019 22:11

Why does it have the reach the point of assault before it becomes reasonable to us to object?

theflushedzebra · 10/12/2019 22:29

That's an extremely good question, Theinebriati, which should be asked more.

Women fought for our spaces, away from men, for many reasons - privacy and dignity among them.

Why are we suddenly expected to allow males into them, because of their internal feeling of gender identity?

One argument the Libdems have thrown at us is that transwomen have used women's spaces for decades - it's so misleading. Some of the old-style transexuals may have - especially if they passed - but they are a very small number compared to the people counted under the (Stonewall) trans umbrella now.

This trans umbrella is a very new thing, and a whole new kettle of fish. Should any man who says he identifies as a woman gan access to our spaces?

Fact is - whilst ibdems are looking out for an 'oppressed minority" (I dispute that actually) - they're not looking out for women - whose oppression is recognised and written into law, under the Equality Act. None of this is good for women. How can it be? - our rights are being made available to born males - and so diluted or removed from us. I'd be tempted to ask "what's in it for women?" And I bet I'd be told to be kind.

user44423 · 10/12/2019 22:42

Will a female sign on the door stop a predator? of course the piece of paper itself doesn't stop a predator. What it does is to make the social expectation clear. That means that any man entering anyway is clearly breaching that expectation, is suspect and can be objected to.

For example, when my son's class go swimming at the local pool a paper sign is put up on the communal changing rooms saying 'children changing do not enter' so anyone else using the other part of the pool uses the general cubicles. Of course the paper sign doesn't magically stop paedophiles coming in but if a random adult were to come in (none have tried) there would be immediate alarm and the children would react with hostility and get a teacher/attendant who would deal with the situation. It's not the paper itself, it is what it signifies and the action that results from its breach.

This policy that is being pushed is to remove the meaning of the female sign, meaning that it loses the power to signify anything. Once you have done that then the social convention breaks down and women lose the power to object.

littlbrowndog · 10/12/2019 23:03

Great post user. Exactly

littlbrowndog · 10/12/2019 23:04

I very much like children using hostility. The children know they have boundaries