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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

LibDem funding own thread.

65 replies

Cismyfatarse1 · 07/12/2019 20:47

Hopefully, this works as a share token.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/puberty-blocker-drug-firm-donated-cash-to-lib-dems-cf3x77nh3?shareToken=5ac14da89a7a4d69ca77cce33d7421f6

Shocking, as I said on the other thread. I wasn't going to vote for them after all they have said but this made DH reconsider too.

OP posts:
Lumene · 07/12/2019 21:02

Thanks OP. I would also have liked to vote Lib Dem but won’t be doing so.

RubyViolet · 07/12/2019 21:03

Lib Dem funding by manufacturer of puberty blockers. It’s there in black and white in The Times.

traceyracer · 07/12/2019 21:24

I would vote for the Libdems but instead I'm going to strategic vote Labour, because they are the main competitors to Tories (whom I least want back in).

TheChampagneGalop · 07/12/2019 21:27

I'm speechless. This big pharma stuff is scary.

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 07/12/2019 21:28

god £100K is such a paltry amount to induce them to betray women and children

thirty fucking pieces of silver

CaveMum · 07/12/2019 21:34

It’s not just £100k though. It’s £1.4 million since 2013.

twitter.com/jeanhatchet/status/1203422825421443072

OldCrone · 07/12/2019 21:38

It’s not just £100k though. It’s £1.4 million since 2013.

Link to the evidence

Qcng · 07/12/2019 23:02

The Lib Dems are in the pockets of pharma who want to draw children into a lifetime medical pathway.
Yep.
Not exactly a vote winner.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 07/12/2019 23:14

Before I consider this a smoking gun, I'd want to know how many manufacturers bid puberty blockers arent funding the LibDems, and how much of Ferrings product is puberty blockers....

OldCrone · 07/12/2019 23:38

Someone linked to this on another thread yesterday.
www.transgendertrend.com/puberty-blockers-safe/

I would want to know why a drug company, Ferring, sponsored the crucial Dutch trial into puberty blockers: the 2006 Delemarre-van de Waal and Cohen-Kettenis paper was ‘presented at the 4th Ferring Pharmaceuticals International Paediatric Endocrinology Symposium, Paris (2006)’ and Ferring Pharmaceuticals supported the publication of these proceedings.’

Ferring was interested in this novel use for their expensive drug because they market Triptorelin, one of the GnRH antagonists used in gender clinics under the brand names Diphereline and Gonapeptyl.

The Amsterdam clinic was financially supported in its experimental project to block puberty in gender dysphoric adolescents by a pharmaceutical company which stood to make commercial gains from their new protocol.

From the paper mentioned above:
Acknowledgements
The authors are very grateful to Ferring Pharmaceuticals for the financial support of studies on the treatment of adolescents with gender identity disorders

LibDem funding own thread.
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 07/12/2019 23:42

I would want to know why a drug company, Ferring, sponsored the crucial Dutch trial into puberty blockers

Thanks Crone I'm always a bit wary about going to tin foil hattery, but that does look rather damning.

OldCrone · 07/12/2019 23:45

Another paper by Delemarre-van de Waal and Cohen-Kettenis (and 2 others) from 2016.

www.jsm.jsexmed.org/article/S1743-6095(16)30219-3/abstract

Funding: This study was funded by an unrestricted grant from Ferring.

They do make other drugs, but they seem to be putting a lot of money into research about puberty blockers.

OldCrone · 07/12/2019 23:51

More about Ferring in this article in the BMJ.

blogs.bmj.com/bmjebmspotlight/2019/02/25/gender-affirming-hormone-in-children-and-adolescents-evidence-review/

Ten studies analysed the effects of puberty blockers ... Six studies were funded by industry: 4 received funding from Ferring (Delemarre-van de Waal 2006, Staphorsius (2015), Schagen 2016 and Hannema 2017).

VernonSquare · 08/12/2019 00:18

Long time lurker on Mumsnet here, but finally made an account tonight to chip in on this as a feminist and (full disclosure) because I work in the industry and have knowledge of Ferring. Honestly, this story is a tenuous-at-best conspiracy theory. Frederik Paulsen (the Swedish eccentric billionaire who owns Ferring, having inherited it from his biochemist parents) is a liberal - and fervently against Brexit. He is a long time donor to the Lib Dems because they are pro-Europe and the only party to come out with a clear anti-Brexit agenda. Paulsen has form for backing election campaigns for several politicians, and not just in the UK. For example, a Swiss candidate called Geraldine Savary running for election as senator in the canton where he lives in Switzerland - all google-able. He's just a billionaire doing what billionaires do with their piles of gold bars - backing whoever he deems most likely to advance his interests. He has little to no role in the day to day running of the company and is much more interested in environmental advocacy and exploration. The fact that Ferring make triptorelin, a GnRH analogue (with an expired patent) that is licensed for use in IVF and treating prostate cancer is pretty much a red herring. The company literally makes all sorts of synthetic hormones for a wide range of conditions e.g. multiple hormones used in IVF, growth hormone, hormones to treat incontinence etc etc - that is their specialty. In the pharmaceutical industry it's entirely normal that once drugs are licensed, independent investigators will want to run their own trials on various sub-populations of patients who for some reason weren't included in the registration trials or perhaps for a new indication they think it might work in. So it's not surprising that docs at gender clinics have run trials using triptorelin or prescribed it off-licence, as no GnRH analogues (or blockers if you prefer) have been trialled and approved for the indication in trans kids. There would be gigantic fines and potentially prosecution if Ferring itself were found to be promoting the drug off-licence to treat children - and there is no evidence as far as I can see that that they have done this. Literally, the docs at the gender clinics are prescribing it outside the indications that it is licensed for, which it is perfectly legal for them to do. So tbh it seems more than a bit tenuous that the owner of Ferring would be backing the Lib Dems because he thinks he'd make loads of money on a drug whose patent has expired - ie loads of generics companies would also be able to make cheap copies of triptorelin if Swinson got in and dished out hormone blockers to all gnc kids. This whole story is the definition of tinfoil hattery.

OldCrone · 08/12/2019 00:28

There would be gigantic fines and potentially prosecution if Ferring itself were found to be promoting the drug off-licence to treat children - and there is no evidence as far as I can see that that they have done this.

They've been funding the research into its use as a puberty blocker for children who identify as transgender. Is that not promoting its use for this purpose?

Thelnebriati · 08/12/2019 00:32

''The company literally makes all sorts of synthetic hormones''
Trans people are dependent on cross sex hormones.

VernonSquare · 08/12/2019 00:49

Of course not its not promotion to fund research - all drug companies provide supplies of their drugs for clinicians to use in trials and also provide grants for studies. How else would doctors or NGOs like the WHO fund their specialist research areas e.g in a specific patient population or when trying a drug for a condition it's not licensed for? Promotion of prescription drugs (ie marketing, reps going in and selling) can only occur within the licensed indication though and that's what I'm talking about above.

VernonSquare · 08/12/2019 00:54

Trans people are dependent on cross sex hormones.

Not sure what your point is here? The hormones used by trans people are made by multiple drug companies - they are simple-ish peptides, and mostly off patent (ie cheap)

OccasionalKite · 08/12/2019 00:57

VernonSquare:

Ever heard of paragraphs?

Your first post appears to be word salad because it's just a solid block of text that tends to dissuade reading on a screen. That is all.

Coyoacan · 08/12/2019 01:00

Frankly, apart from the sale puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones, there are rich pickings for pharma in all the iatrogenic chronic diseases caused by transgenderism. Besides how else do we explain Jo Swinson?

VernonSquare · 08/12/2019 01:07

OccasionalKite - cheers for the support and lecture on punctuation as I try and post some insight into this situation with a miserable fussing teething baby Confused

bettybeans · 08/12/2019 01:13

Vernon square, the onus is on Swinson and LibDems to examine the political links between the donations they receive and the policies they push for. I'm sure the Ferring owner does have wide and varied interests but that doesn't diminish the link between LDs support of gender politics and benefits to Ferring. A complex scenario with tenuous links may still ultimately mean millions or billions in profit for the pharmaceutical company and that's always a connection worth examining.

Creepster · 08/12/2019 01:13

Wouldn't be the first pharma company who funded research with the understanding that they are looking for a specific result.
Do you read the newspapers?

OccasionalKite · 08/12/2019 01:21

You're welcome, Vernon!